Side Dish: Pistachio Secrets from Nichols Farms' Jeff Nichols

George Duran: 00:00:00

People just eat less when they eat slower.

That's a fact.

That's why I eat so fast.

Welcome to the Always Hangry podcast where we break down the way we eat.

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I'm your host, George Duran.

Today is a little different.

This is Side Dish, a short one on one conversation with someone who really knows their food.

No co-host, no ranting about the crazy stuff happening in the food industry.

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Check out our full episodes.

We've deep fried an iPad, busted oyster myths, and figured out why kids become such picky eaters.

But today we're going nuts.

Well, technically we're going pistachios.

We're cracking open the story behind one of the world's most beloved snacks.

From how they're grown to what makes a really great pistachio.

Joining me is Jeff Nichols, vice president of supply chain and grower relationship at Nichols Farms, a family owned California business that's been farming for over 60 years.

Jeff is a third generation member of the Nichols family whose grandfather helped pioneer pistachio farming in California's Central Valley.

Today the family grows thousands of acres of pistachios and almonds and Jeff is helping carry that legacy into the future.

Jeff, thanks for being on Always Hangry.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:01:14

Awesome.

Excited to be here.

Thanks for having me.

George Duran: 00:01:16

First of all, I want to thank you for being a micro sponsor on the show.

It actually helps us grow.

The show helps us pay for the production costs for, but it also gives us an opportunity to learn more about your craft, which of course is pistachios.

For somebody who's never seen a pistachio farm and a pistachio tree like myself, tell us exactly what that looks like and how pistachios are grown just quickly.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:01:37

Yeah, I'll walk you through the season.

So pistachio tree starts out dormant.

The pistachios can be anywhere from about 4 or 5ft when they're planted all the way upwards of 16ft high and they just have bare branches during the winter as temperatures warm, buds begin developing in March, followed by bloom in April.

So there are female and male pistachios and the wind carries the pollen from the male to the female trees.

By May, the trees are covered in green leaves and small pistachio clusters.

The shells start to develop and then the kernel actually fills during the summer.

By July and August, the nuts are mature and the shells start splitting and we use mechanical shakers to harvest the crop.

Probably the most interesting thing is that while the pistachios are creating a crop for this year, they're actually developing the buds for the following year.

And you could see that on the tree right now.

George Duran: 00:02:28

So it's kind of like almost like these little beans, almost looking bean looking pods, so to speak.

And the shell grows with it.

Is it hard from the very beginning or it kind of matures and then becomes hard?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:02:38

The shell will form first after it forms, it's hard and then the kernel will actually grow after that.

And then about 80% of the kernels will grow large enough to naturally split the shell on the tree.

George Duran: 00:02:50

And when you harvest it, are you also roasting it afterwards or can you just eat it right off the tree?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:02:55

You can eat it off the, right off the tree.

It's, it's about a 40% moisture.

And what you eat, a typical bag from the store is anywhere from 2 to 3%.

So they do taste a little watery.

But yeah, you can still eat it off the tree.

George Duran: 00:03:07

Does it have like a sweet nuttiness that pistachios have still?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:03:10

I don't like eating it right off the tree, but there's some people that do.

It tastes better in the bag, in my opinion.

George Duran: 00:03:15

Yeah.

And so I assume the roasting is what opens up the shell partially, is that right?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:03:20

No, all of that happens actually on the tree.

So as I mentioned before, yeah, the kernel will outgrow the shell in some circumstances.

If there's a heavy crop load or you're not applying enough water when the kernel is filling, the kernel won't actually break the shell.

So we call that a closed shell.

And that goes through a mechanical shelling process where we break the shell itself, extract the kernel.

And a lot of those you'll see in the stores where they're selling no shell pistachios.

That's where a lot of those come from.

George Duran: 00:03:49

Does that mean that the ones that have opened are the ones that you sell with the shells on?

Meaning you have probably a machine that goes through a laser, beams it and sees which one's open and kind of puts it aside.

So you can sell it with a shell on.

Right, Correct.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:04:02

Not quite that process, but similar.

So the nice thing about pistachios is there's not equipment designed specifically for pistachios.

We have to steal it from other industries, essentially.

So.

And peas, that's what they call a pin picker.

It's just a mechanical drum that's rotating that has very small needles on it.

If the nut is split, it can hook onto it and get kicked off.

If it doesn't, it gets separated that way.

George Duran: 00:04:27

Amazing.

Okay, now, your grandfather started this business or this farm.

How were they doing things differently than they were doing that you're doing today?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:04:35

Oh, my grandfather was growing traditional government subsidized crops like corn and wheat.

But he wanted to move away from relying on those programs and build something more sustainable.

So one of his neighbors was actually planted almonds down the road, and he started researching permanent crops and saw an opportunity.

So planted almonds in: 1981

So he took a risk, and the risk paid off.

George Duran: 00:05:04

I know pistachios are notorious for being difficult to grow.

Why is that?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:05:08

Yeah, they require demanding combination of winter chill, hot and dry summers, and overlapping bloom between male and female trees.

And you got to have successful wind pollination.

And they also have a much stronger alternate bearing habit, meaning they'll produce a large amount of nuts one year and very little the next year.

And that's mainly because when there's a heavy harvest, it causes a lot of the fruit buds for the following year to fall off.

So you're making production and income less predictable from year to year.

George Duran: 00:05:37

Yeah.

Can we talk about the pistachios I grew up with in the 90s, I guess, or 80s and 90s, the red pistachios, Was that like a marketing thing?

Did it have actually any spice?

It was very salty, but it kept your fingers pretty red.

What was that about?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:05:51

You're probably going to not like the answer.

Are you sure you want to hear it?

George Duran: 00:05:54

I do, because I know they don't exist anymore.

I don't find them anywhere, and I don't think I want to find them anywhere.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:06:00

That was when we were importing a lot of pistachios from Iran.

And the easiest way to cover up a defect is to dye it.

So that's what.

George Duran: 00:06:08

What do you mean a defect?

Like the shell is broken or what?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:06:11

It could be insect damage or any sort of bird or mechanical damage.

So we use electronic color sorters to kick those out.

But back in the day, if you're importing, you just import it

dyed to cover it.

George Duran: 00:06:25

Oh, I had no idea.

There was something that almost like it tasted better for some reason.

But it was just salt that you had on it.

But of course, that dye.

Oh, my.

I ate a lot of those, my friend.

Maybe I shouldn't have.

Yeah, that's so funny.

All right, so we.

We know that pistachio trees are growing in California, but it is a long term investment.

Someone can't just start growing pistachios on their backyard and say, hey, I'm going to start making money here, right?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:06:51

No, not necessarily.

So a newly planted pistachio orchard typically begins producing a meaningful amount of crop around ages 6 to 7.

And it comes profitable around like 8 to 9 years.

But it takes about 10 to 13 years to recover the initial investment and make break even.

That's if you own the land.

If you have to purchase the land too, and have a operating line that can take even longer.

So it's a very long investment.

George Duran: 00:07:21

Yeah.

And there's different types of pistachios.

I know you guys have to go through the whole process of growing, processing, roasting, but at what point in that journey is the flavor of a great pistachio really determined?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:07:32

Yeah.

It all starts in the field.

We work with a strong base of high quality growers who are actively involved in their orchards every day.

And we also maintain very strict quality standards throughout the processing.

Specs that we ship product out is lower than the USDA specs just to ensure our consumer is enjoying the flavor and the product.

But we also produce all of our flavored pistachios in small batches.

We have a proprietary roasting and brining system.

And we just.

At Nichols Farms, we take tremendous pride in our product.

And that commitment carries to the quality and every step of the process from the orchard to the finished product.

George Duran: 00:08:11

Yeah.

And the proof is in the pudding, because your pistachios seriously are the best roasted pistachios I've ever had.

And I discovered them recently too.

Another study in: 2011

And obviously because it's easier just to pop a whole bunch in your mouth versus, like taking your time and slowly eating pistachios.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:08:35

I feel like there's something addictive when you're cracking them.

It's hard to stop.

George Duran: 00:08:38

So, man.

Also, like, you know, you're opening them up, there's the salt on your fingers, and then when you put it into your fingers, you taste the salt more.

And again, you're taking your time to really enjoying it versus getting a handful and just shoving it in your mouth.

But people just eat less when they eat slower.

That's.

That's a fact.

That's why I eat so fast.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:08:56

Oh, okay.

George Duran: 00:08:58

Let's talk about sustainability.

I know water is a Big issue in California with agriculture.

What changes have you guys made at Nichols Farms to grow pistachios more efficiently and sustainably?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:09:08

Yeah, that's a great question and a topic that's been talked about a lot in California.

So, yeah, water efficiency is one of the biggest priorities in California agriculture.

My brother, Jimmy Nichols actually started a company called Hotspot Ag and it's a.

He developed an automated irrigation system that allows growers to apply the precise amount of water to meet their orchard needs.

And they also have access to tools that forecast evapotranspiration.

For those of you that don't know what that means, that's basically just measuring how much water the tree needs based on ambient temperatures.

So it helps us better understand which the water or the trees are using.

And by combining the automation and that data, you can make smarter decisions about how much water you're applying.

So you can basically, with the same amount of water, you can produce a lot more pistachios.

Using this way versus the old school way was just, I feel I'm going to irrigate 12 hours and this is what I did last year.

George Duran: 00:10:03

So amazing what happens to the shells after.

After you discard them.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:10:07

So a lot of people put them on dirt roads to minimize the dust around California.

George Duran: 00:10:12

What?

Wow.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:10:14

Going back to my brother, he actually trialed putting them actually back into the fields.

There's a lot of organic and nitrogen in those shells itself and they break down very slowly.

So as we apply water, it really helps with water infiltration, meaning the water can get down to the roots.

So long story short, the shells can make that better.

George Duran: 00:10:34

Oh, that's good.

That's good to know.

Good to know.

You also grow organic pistachios.

What is probably the most difficult thing about growing pistachios organically?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:10:43

Pest management, weed control and nitrogen uptake is definitely the most challenging.

So conventional growers can apply synthetic fertilizers or synthetic nitrogen fertilizer that are quickly available to the tree, while the organic growers rely on sources that must be broken down before the nitrogen becomes available.

And that just takes a lot longer.

And the window when the pistachios need the nitrogen is short.

So managing that is very difficult.

George Duran: 00:11:10

My parents would always tell me that pistachios are really good for you.

Why are pistachios so good for you?

Do you know?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:11:16

Plant based protein is one of the biggest drivers of growth.

Pistachios contain all nine essential amino acids and they're a good source of fiber.

And they also contain lutein, which supports eye health.

George Duran: 00:11:29

Okay.

So one of the things I love about Nichols Farms, it has a lot of creative flavors.

Hot honey, jalapeno lime, habanero lime, garlic, garden herbs.

My favorite is the cocoa cookie, like the chocolatiness and then it's like dry roasted.

So it just, it's very crunchy and flavorful.

How do you come up with these flavors and why is your pistachio so unique when it comes to that mouthfeel of pistachios that I don't find in anywhere else with other pistachios?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:11:56

Well, I'm happy you do like the cocoa cookie.

That's.

I always tell people they taste like Cocoa Puffs.

So it starts to where our marketing team will.

They'll analyze all the newest trends in the markets with regards to flavors and they'll.

We'll create a sample and we'll say, oh, that's too sweet.

Go back to the drawing board.

And we keep doing that until we refine it and we get customer feedback, until we get the right mixture.

George Duran: 00:12:19

Do you eat pistachios all day long?

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:12:21

Absolutely.

I call it my quality control testing every day.

George Duran: 00:12:25

So you guys are really doing us a service by introducing great quality pistachios to the American consumer, and I really appreciate that.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:12:32

Well, I appreciate you saying that.

Our team works very hard to produce high quality pistachios, and it's nice to be recognized for that.

So thank you.

George Duran: 00:12:39

Thank you so much for being on the show.

Really appreciate it.

Jeff Nichols of Nichols Farms: 00:12:42

Awesome.

Thank you very much.

George Duran: 00:12:44

Jeff Nichols from Nichols Farm.

And you can find more on Nichols Farms and all their delicious pistachios and those flavors I mentioned at Nichols Farms.

Nichols, spelled nicholsfarms.com that's it for today.

Make sure to tune in next week for an all new episode of Always Hangry.

And as always, make sure to check out always hangry podcast.com for past episodes, behind the scenes extras, and all the ways to follow us.

I'm George Duran.

Until next time, stay hungry.