Fridge Crimes & Chocolate Secrets
George Duran opens the fridge with Delish food editor and recipe developer Taylor Ann Spencer, and it is not pretty in there. They start with the Eat Me First trend, where you give soon-to-expire food its own labeled bin, and George admits his version of that bin is the back of the fridge. From there: the foods we forget most, whether bread and potatoes belong in the fridge at all (they disagree), and George's habit of plastic-wrapping every pepper he buys.
Then Taylor Ann tells George that eggs should be stored pointy end down. He does not take it well.
They also get into the "ADHD fridge" idea of moving produce to the door and condiments to the crisper, fridgescaping (including Fridgerton, Hobbit and Beetlejuice themes), and the restock videos that turned a mini fridge into a full-time career. After the break it is fridge technology: knock-to-see-through doors, cameras that log what goes in and out, a fridge that pre-cools before you usually open it, and the 1950s features we somehow lost, like a door that opens from either side.
In the second half, chocolatier and TikTok favorite Konstantin Zsigo of Park Lake Creamery in Bath, Michigan explains how chocolate is made, why cocoa butter is the expensive part and what big brands use in its place, why he does not think European chocolate is automatically better, and what happened to Dubai chocolate once the big manufacturers got hold of it.
Guests
- Taylor Ann Spencer, food editor and recipe developer at Delish.
- Konstantin Zsigo, chocolatier and co-owner of Park Lake Creamery. Order at konstantinzsigo.com, follow at @konstantinzsigo on TikTok.
Key takeaways
- We eat what we see first, which is the whole idea behind an Eat Me First bin or shelf.
- Store eggs pointy end down and off the door, where the temperature swings the most.
- Freezing is the best way to keep bread. George refrigerates his; Taylor Ann does not.
- Smart fridges are now doing Eat Me First for you, logging what goes in and flagging what has been there too long.
- Cocoa butter is the costly ingredient in chocolate. Cutting it, often with palm kernel oil or the emulsifier PGPR, is how big brands hold prices down.
- Konstantin's view on sustainability labels: you cannot verify them yourself, so it comes down to trusting the brand.
- Most people who say Dubai chocolate is overrated have only had the mass-produced version.
People, companies and sources mentioned
- People: Taylor Ann Spencer, Konstantin Zsigo, Kaeli Mae McEwen
- Appliances: LG (InstaView, ThinQ Food, AI Fresh, Signature), Samsung (AutoView, FlexZone, AI Vision Inside, Bixby), GE, Philco, Kelvinator (Foodarama)
- Chocolate: Hershey, Cadbury, Nestle, Kinder, Reese's, Snickers, Fix (Dubai), Costco
- Organizations and outlets: ReFED, Love Food Hate Waste NZ, Realtor.com, Delish, Food Research International, Starbucks, Park Lake Creamery
Transcript
An egg has like a more.
A less pointy end and a more pointy end and it should be stored with the pointy end down.
George Duran:That is a lie.
How the hell does that doesn't make sense.
What does it matter that it's upside down or right side up?
Taylor Ann Spencer:It promotes freshness by flipping it.
George Duran:If we could swear on the show, I would say it's bull.
Welcome to the Always Hangry podcast where we break down the way we eat.
The good, the bad and the completely ridiculous.
I'm your host, George Duran.
The Today we're opening the fridge from Eat Me first bins and fridgescaping and the high tech fridges, trying to reinvent the kitchen all over again.
And later on, a master chocolatier and TikTok sensation spills the trade secrets behind the chocolates.
We can't stop eating.
Back with me today is delish food writer, editor and recipe developer, Taylor Ann Spencer.
Taylor Ann, welcome to the show again.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Thanks for having me.
George Duran:Today's episode is all about refrigerators and you recently sent me an email talking about the.
The Eat me first trend.
What is the Eat Me first trend?
Taylor Ann Spencer:The Eat Me first trend is this trend of people on social media obviously posting about how they put a box in the refrigerator.
It's either a box or a container or maybe they just designated area, but it's labeled Eat me first.
And in that zone goes all of the stuff that's about to basically go bad.
George Duran:Wait, so you have to manage the fridge constantly?
So like if things are starting to go bad now, you gotta move it in there?
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yeah, no, you do have to.
And that's the thing.
You do have to be sort of aware of what's in your fridge and you also have to be aware of what its timeline is like, because not every vegetable goes on the same timeline.
You know, head of cabbage, sit there forever practically and be fine.
Cucumbers, not so much.
George Duran:Who has the time for this?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, I don't have the space for this, honestly.
Like, I thought about it, but I'm like, where would I put that zone?
I'm a recipe developer.
My fridge is insane.
George Duran:Yeah, I mean, you need to hire like an intern or someone just to constantly manage your fridge.
I'm the fridge manager in my fridge and it's an absolute disaster.
My ADHD is all over it.
I mean, it's just stuff is rotting in the back.
It's literally Eat Me first is in the back.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, it's in the back for most people.
George Duran:That's why I have long Arms so I can reach the eat me first in the very back.
Taylor Ann Spencer:As long as, you know it's there.
George Duran:Yeah.
I have an onion bin and my crisper.
The other day I was just going for an onion.
I just stuck my hand in there and it was soft and blue.
That just squeezed the mold out.
So I need to be more conscious of what I have in my fridge more often.
by having fridge stickers in:So they had these fridge stickers that they would just like give to all their people.
And you could put it on the boxes that says eat me first.
And so New Zealand started this whole trend.
There's a psychology behind it.
We eat what we see first.
So that's kind of it.
If you see it there, you'll eat it first.
What food do you think we throw away more than anything else?
What do you think?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I think greens.
I think lettuce and spinach.
I think bananas potentially.
George Duran:Well, there was a study made in the uk.
The top foods that have been forgotten in our fridge.
Here we go.
The top foods that we forget in our fridge.
Number five is fizzy drinks.
You open it, you close it up and you just leave it there and you just forget about it.
Taylor Ann Spencer:And then it goes flat.
George Duran:Yeah.
But it's still there, taking up real estate.
Number four, prepared and home cooked meals.
So essentially, your leftovers, they're there always.
My trick on that, I have a vacuum sealer.
After two or three days, I vacuum seal it, put it in the freezer, and I forget it in the freezer.
Instead.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I was gonna say, we are not even gonna talk about the state of the freezer.
It's so bad.
George Duran:That's another episode.
Freezers.
Number three, milk.
People forget about milk and then it's too late.
And chunky.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Ew.
George Duran:Number two is bread.
We're constantly forgetting about bread.
Hot dog buns, burger buns, regular bread.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That's an interesting one.
Because a lot of bread these days, unless you're buying fresh bread, if it's in bags often, it's like been loaded with preservatives.
George Duran:People say you should not refrigerate bread.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Exactly.
And I honestly don't.
Do not.
George Duran:I always do.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Really?
George Duran:Especially in the summer because it's too humid.
And I'm telling you, mold will accumulate on it.
And I don't care if it changes the bread stales it.
But there's mold.
Freezing is the best way to preserve bread.
Number one is potatoes.
What we forget about potatoes.
The Most, according to the survey.
Interesting, because it's in the bottom and it's just staying away and nobody touches it and nobody knows.
And the next thing you know, there's roots growing and you have a kind of a garden growing in your crisper.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Do you refrigerate potatoes?
George Duran:I do.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I don't.
George Duran:Because again, it's warm.
Yes, you should be.
Because it wants a cool, dark space.
Right.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So my cupboard usually is where they go.
George Duran:There's a US non profit organization called Refed that studies how and where food gets wasted.
Here are the top five reasons Americans waste food in their refrigerators.
Over purchasing.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yep.
George Duran:Forgetting food that's already in the fridge.
Not knowing whether food is still fresh is a big one.
Plans change after you've bought the food.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yep.
George Duran:And poor storage.
When I buy vegetables that have a skin, think zucchini, eggplant, et cetera, I plastic wrap it.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Oh.
To keep the bacteria from getting to it.
George Duran:I don't know what it does like peppers.
Red peppers.
Which are insanely expensive.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yes.
Oh, my gosh.
George Duran:Three, four dollars for a single red pepper.
And if you put it in the crisper, it goes bad in about two days max.
It starts wrinkling up when you plastic wrap peppers.
It lasts for a week, maybe longer.
There's something about the humidity that's going on inside the fridge or the dryness that allows all these vegetables to live longer.
And yes, I am introducing microplastics in my children's food, but I won't be alive to see them suffer from the microplastic.
It's all good.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Do they know this?
Do they know this?
George Duran:They'll know it when they go to the oncologist.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Great.
So glad for them.
George Duran:Do you know what the number one food is that we store poorly in our refrigerators?
Eggs.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Is it?
George Duran:Yes.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Oh, I actually do believe that.
George Duran:Yeah.
Why?
Where do we store it incorrectly?
Taylor Ann Spencer:Well, I actually did wrote an article on this.
And you're supposed to store them like, not in the front of the fridge, but you're also supposed to turn them upside down.
What?
Yeah.
Turn the egg itself upside down.
George Duran:Which way is right side up with the egg.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So the pointy end.
If you think about it, an egg has like a more.
A less pointy end and a more pointy end.
And it should be stored with the pointy end down.
George Duran:That is a lie.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That is a lie.
No, it has to do with where the air sac is.
There's like that little air sac in the egg.
George Duran:Make it out of here.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So true.
Look up the article I wrote an article on it.
It's out there.
George Duran:How the hell does that doesn't make sense.
Does it matter that it's upside down or right side up?
That's crazy.
What is the science behind it?
George Duran:Go.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So I would have to review the article because it's been like a year, but it does.
It promotes freshness by flipping it.
I promise you, if we could swear.
George Duran:On the show, I would say it's bull.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Good thing we can't.
George Duran: In:You're not supposed to store it on the door because that's.
It has the most fluctuation.
Except all these refrigerators have egg storages on the door, like built in.
Often you see those.
So that's a problem.
You have to store it inside the fridge.
Like you said, there's another trend going around.
It's called reassign the door fridge or ADHD fridge.
Have you heard of this?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I have, yeah.
George Duran:It's when you put produce on your door and the condiments inside of the crisper drawer.
And that's crazy because that's where it kind of dries up and wilts the vegetables.
But at least when you open the fridge, you're more inclined to eat those vegetables on the door.
Have you done this?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I. I have considered doing this.
Not in the door, but I've considered putting all of my condiments in the crisper and putting all my vegetables up top.
George Duran:Tiktokers say produce might go bad, but I keep forgetting it's in the crisper anyway.
So what's the point?
Let's just put it on the door and eat it.
I don't know.
I don't know about this stuff.
That's weird.
What's the biggest thing rotting in your fridge right now?
That pepper.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I've been actually doing a pretty good job the last week.
That's probably the closest thing.
But it's not rotting yet.
George Duran:I checked yesterday.
Cause I was like, oh, let me see what's rotting in my fridge.
And there's a very expanded bottle of buttermilk in the back of my fridge.
And no, it's expired.
Just because of the bulbous nature of that plastic container.
It's at any moment now it's gonna give.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, the bulbous nature is a dead giveaway.
But buttermilk lasts way longer than people think, I find in general.
George Duran:Yeah.
The problem with buttermilk is that it's already kind of chunky sometimes.
And then you don't know.
Is this Naturally chunky or is it just because it's gone really bad and it's chunky and then there's fridge scaping.
Have you heard of this?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I have.
George Duran:This is insane.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Who has time for this?
George Duran:Explain what fridge scaping is.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yeah.
So fridge scaping is just this idea that you sort of decorate your fridge inside on a theme and it's got like so beautiful, like antique, like vases and boxes and like the food is still in there, but it's kind of living in that environment.
And I have questions about this, like how safe this is.
But they look really cool.
George Duran:Yeah.
On Instagram.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yeah.
George Duran:I mean, I like the idea that you put little flower vases inside the fridge and little frames or whatever it is decorated.
It's just a fridge also.
And what are you gonna do?
Keep the doors open and just look at it all day?
Taylor Ann Spencer:So I admire somebody doing something to make their fridge a serene place.
George Duran:Yeah.
Taylor Ann Spencer:In theory.
If I had a second fridge, which I never will in a queen's apartment.
Yeah, that would be cool.
George Duran:Yeah.
Maybe you should just buy a second fridge just for fridge scaping.
There are people who fridgescape with themes.
Here are the top themes that I searched and I found on Instagram and TikTok that people fridgescape with fridgerton.
That's the Bridgerton version of it.
Ornate frames, flowers, fancy china lace, golden accents.
Taylor Ann Spencer:It's everywhere.
George Duran:The hobbit fridgescaping.
Moss, mushrooms, doilies, rustic pottery, herbs.
Come on, people.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I could get down with that.
Yeah, that's cute.
George Duran:Beetlejuice fridge scaping.
That's right.
Black and white stripes, gothic touches and spooky Tim Burton style decorations.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, that doesn't sound particularly reassuring, to be honest.
I'm like, do I want to be scared of my fridge?
George Duran:And how much black food do you have anyways?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, squid ink, frozen yogurt, but I guess that would be in the freezer.
George Duran:Yeah.
Or things that are rotting, they can turn black and dark.
So.
Yeah, that's totally.
Oh yeah.
You get an apple, let it rot to holy hell, and then you pop it right in the center of the fridge.
And now it's like a Tim Burton Beetlejuice kind of thing.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Totally.
George Duran:Holiday fridge scaping is huge.
Christmas, Halloween, Easter, gingerbread houses, like little lollipop ornaments and stuff inside the fridge.
Could be interesting.
Realtor.com has a guide on how to fridge escape.
They say start with a clean fridge already.
You've lost me there.
Taylor Ann Spencer:It is so true.
It's a disaster.
George Duran:Number two Skip trendy clear containers because the fridge will always look the same.
So you want to have a little bit of like ornamental containers and colorful and stripes and stuff.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Makes sense.
George Duran:Incorporate a theme, obviously.
And most importantly, don't listen to the haters.
Some people will tell you that fridgescaping is pointless.
And I agree, it's useless.
You're wasting your time.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Unless you're a tiktoker, you know, it is pointless.
But we do a lot of stuff in this life that's pointless.
So if that's.
If that's your thing, I say get it.
I will not be doing it, though.
George Duran:No.
And if I opened your fridge and I saw it's fridgescape, I will run away.
I will not eat dinner there.
I can't imagine what your bedroom looks like.
And then there's restock porn.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Wait, what?
George Duran:Yep, people empty their fridges completely and then they start adding these packaged foods so they could be matched and perfectly assembled like a Tetris right inside of their fridge.
Individual yogurt, the apples perfectly aligned like it's perfection.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I have seen this.
George Duran:Yes.
There's some social media influencer named Kayla McEwen, which I don't know, but she has millions and millions of followers.
I checked her feed.
In:It went so viral that she leaned into the niche.
She quit her job at Starbucks and became a full time creator because she did restock porn.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Wow.
George Duran:It's like ASMR a little bit.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Oh, yeah.
George Duran:It's like click, click, click.
And you add the bottles and you add everything and it's like, oh, my God.
It's like perfect.
It feels good.
You're watching.
You get kind of soothed.
Yes.
Yeah, I need to stop scrolling.
Yeah, I need to take a break.
Up next, refrigerators are getting scary smart, but wait till you hear what they were doing decades ago.
Plus, a master chocolatier and TikTok sensation joins us to talk viral creations, chocolate secrets, and what makes the really good stuff so darn good right after this.
All right, we're back with Taylor and Spencer.
What kind of refrigerator do you have at home?
I know you live in New York City and Queens, but what's your refrigerator?
Refrigerator like?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, it's just a pretty standard, like white with the freezer on top.
And then the refrigerator, it's a. I mean, it's in a apartment that we rent.
George Duran:Yeah.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So we did not choose it, it chose us.
George Duran:Yeah.
And you know, today's refrigerators have crazy technology out there.
I did some research and I found that LG Samsung, these are the kind of the big innovators with technology.
There's some that have see through refrigerators.
Have you seen those?
Taylor Ann Spencer:I have, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
George Duran:Do you have LG's InstaView which has been around for about 10 years and you knock on it and the glass kind of just shows you what's inside of it.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Saves energy.
You don't have to open the door.
George Duran:I still have to look at it, I think.
I don't know if I could do that.
I don't know.
Taylor Ann Spencer:But you can look at it through the door.
George Duran:It's not enough.
But then what's in the back?
You know, like, oh, you can't see.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Through to the back.
George Duran:You can see.
But like you have to kind of like just open the fridge.
Jesus, just open the freaking fridge already.
I mean, what's so hard about that?
Taylor Ann Spencer:You want the immediacy of having all of that within your grasp.
George Duran:LG has sold over 5 million of InstaViews, by the way, Instaview refrigerators.
Samsung has something similar.
It's called the Auto view where the glass door automatically illuminates when you approach it.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I don't like that.
Sorry I'm in the kitchen so much.
I don't want to be suggested that I should eat every time I walk into my kitchen.
George Duran:Unless you have vegetables on the door.
So maybe that will help you.
Taylor Ann Spencer:My rotting vegetables.
That would make for really great viewing.
George Duran:This day and age.
We have convertible fridge freezer compartments.
Compartments like Samsung's floor flex zone can change temperature depending on what your need is.
So if you need more refrigerator space, the freezer space kind of turns into a refrigerator.
You can lower the temperature.
And now you have a double refrigerator.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yeah, that's kind of cool.
George Duran:I've seen the specialized ice cube machines and some of these refrigerators or freezers.
Samsung offers sphere ice half sphere ices ice bites, cubed, curved and crushed ice, depending on the model.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That's hot.
I would do that.
George Duran:Refrigerators have auto refilling water stations.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Oh yeah.
George Duran:So they know exactly how much you want to fill.
So you put it in there, you press the button, it's 8 ounces.
8 Ounces exactly.
Great technology.
Really nice.
We're going to start getting AI now in our refrigerators.
We have it actually.
Samsung has this refrigerator called the Bixby.
It can understand requests such as temporarily lowering the fridge temperature because you're loading groceries or stopping ice production while you're away.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That's smart.
Yeah, I would.
Yeah.
George Duran:I mean, mine does that too, except it's a lever and when the ice goes in, it stops.
And.
But this is AI, you could be like, yo, stop.
I forgot.
Taylor Ann Spencer:From the airport.
George Duran:Yeah, from the airport, exactly.
AI cameras are in refrigerators right now.
Samsung's AI Vision inside has cameras that watch food going in and out of the fridge.
I did a deep dive and I looked at the video of Samsung with this refrigerator.
I want one.
It's amazing.
It has a camera on the top and you put your Coke can or whatever it is right away.
It scans it, it knows it and you put it inside the shelf.
So it scans your item as you put it inside.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So you have to actively have it scan.
George Duran:I mean, it does it relatively quickly as long as you're not covering it with your.
And you kind of just show it.
And if it's like a leftover, you can show it.
It scans it.
The screen puts the leftover there and you can write, you know, leftover pasta.
And you put it inside and it knows that it's in there and how long it's been in there.
And then it tells you which are the ones that are going to expire soon.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So this is eat me first, but AI'd automatically.
That's crazy.
What standard of timeline is it working?
Like, how does it.
Like, is it looking at the carrot going, that carrot is limpy looking, therefore.
See?
George Duran:No, it's just a database practically.
And you're putting the package of carrots there, it knows there's carrots in there.
And then it kind of pops up on your screen.
And now on your phone when you go shop, it says you already have carrots.
Chill out.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That would be cool.
To help with the shopping.
Does it then like tell you, oh, you have X, Y and Z, that's going to go bad, that you should consider eating today.
Does it do that?
George Duran:I don't know.
I think it.
It's just telling you, hey, you put these carrots in like three weeks ago, might want to get rid of them, you know, so you kind of know when you put it in there.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That's cool.
George Duran:LG has one called the ThinQ food, uses an internal camera to identify ingredients, recommend recipes, and suggest substitutions based on what you have.
It knows already what you have in there.
And it's like, what can I make with what I have?
And recipes pop out there.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Where are they getting their recipes from?
George Duran:Oh, delish.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Oh, obviously.
George Duran:Of course.
Yeah, obviously.
LG even has a fridge that predicts when you're Going to open it.
LG introduced the AI fresh on its new signature refrigerators.
It learns your refrigerator use patterns and can pre cool the interior up to two hours before it expects you to start opening the door.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Are you serious?
George Duran:Yeah.
Taylor Ann Spencer:That's pretty freaking cool.
George Duran:I mean, it's a little creepy, but.
Taylor Ann Spencer:It is kind of.
Yeah, but I mean also smart.
George Duran:Yeah.
I need a toilet that does that.
We know you're going to use it in two hours.
Let me start cleaning up the thing and deodorizing.
Taylor Ann Spencer:It doesn't clean the fridge, it just makes it colder.
George Duran:I know, but in this case, the toilet just makes it like cleaner or something.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Or like pre prime it for the flush.
George Duran:Exactly, exactly.
George Duran:They do that.
George Duran:The Japanese toilets do that.
By the way, when you walk in, it does a little squirt of water or something in there just to get ready for you.
It's like, oh, it's George.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I need to go to Japan.
George Duran:Vintage refrigerators were huge back in the day too.
The refrigerators had heated butter compartments heated.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Why?
Why are we heating our butter?
George Duran:You want the butter to be spreadable.
Taylor Ann Spencer:So my mind is blown.
George Duran:And why don't we have that now?
Taylor Ann Spencer:Why don't we have that?
Everybody's like, all of these softening butter hacks.
Just have the refrigerator do it for you.
George Duran:You could adjust it and it would be like perfectly.
So cool.
You could open the refrigerator with your foot.
Back in the days, GE had a refrigerator that was like foot pedaled.
Pretty interesting.
Filco had the golden automatic which allowed the refrigerator door to open from any either side.
So whatever handle you want left or right.
Oh, genius.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Yeah, that is smart.
George Duran:God, where, why have you lost all this technology?
Filco also had a mighty crisper that automatically sprayed a fine mist of water on every fruit and vegetable in the crisper drawer.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Wow.
Like in the grocery store, of course the refrigerator leaked.
Of course it did.
Of course it did.
George Duran:And then there was the Kelvinator Foodarama, one of the first side by side refrigerators.
It had the breakfast bar.
It had different weird compartments, a freezer, wrap dispenser inside of it.
It was like this huge, huge technological marvel that eventually went away.
So we've always been excited about refrigerators and technology has been on the forefront of refrigerators.
We've lost some of it, but gosh, a refrigerator.
Tell me what to eat and what's going bad.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I mean, sounds pretty cool to me.
George Duran:We're in the future, baby.
Let's do it.
Taylor Ann Spencer:I'm a fan of that.
George Duran:Taylor and Spencer, thanks so much.
For being on the show.
This was so much fun.
Taylor Ann Spencer:Thanks for having me.
George Duran:Thank you.
Up next, we're talking all things chocolate with mast chocolatier and TikTok sensation Constantine Zigo.
From his viral creations to the secret behind truly great chocolate.
Stick around.
Welcome back to Always Hangry.
Our guest today is a professional chocolatier and the Internet's unofficial chocolate detective.
Breaking down viral chocolate mysteries, busting myths and explaining what the heck is actually in the chocolate we're eating.
Constantine Zigo, welcome to the show.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
George Duran:Now, Konstantin, you.
You didn't start in chocolate.
Like, this is not what you were born to do, right?
Like that's not what you started doing, right?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:No.
I'm born to write software and, and do scientific stuff, so I'm really an engineer now.
George Duran:For those folks who don't know, just quickly tell us how chocolate is made, it they come.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:They're actually seeds from a pod of a tree that grows in, you know, in the.
In the hottest parts of the world.
Those seeds are dried out and they're fermented and they're roasted and they're ground.
It's a very, very complicated procedure.
And they get it down to just such a smooth feeling that your tongue can perceive it.
It's in the micron range like, like 10, 15 microns.
They also grind the sugar in there as well.
So basically it's a bunch of seeds that have been ground up super, super fine and sugar has been added to it.
George Duran:Are there any of these giant manufacturers of chocolate out there?
I won't name any that are manufacturing chocolate without any cocoa and they claim it's chocolate.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:There's usually cocoa in it, but there's less than there.
There should be.
And there's also the oil.
The really expensive oil that's in chocolate is cocoa butter.
And cocoa butter can be used in the cosmetics industry.
It has other uses and it's very expensive relative to the rest of it.
So any way that they can to reduce the cocoa butter content, they do, and it's often by adding another type of oil, like palm kernel oil.
George Duran:I always hear these things about the shortage of cocoa out there and climate change, how that's affecting it, and of course, the sustainability of it.
Is that true and how does that affect you?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:It is all true and it's driving some people to consider lab grown chocolate.
This is definitely out of my immediate purview, but there are, there's definitely a move afoot to try to remove our dependency on the actual farming part of it.
Which would be, I think, even more devastating to the people that depend on it.
You know, it comes from impoverished nations and entire families work in the, in the cocoa plantations.
And it's a very, very different life from the people that are generally consuming it.
George Duran:Yeah, but a lot of these new chocolatiers, or I should say medium sized chocolate makers, they're claiming, you know, the sustained sustainability aspect of their chocolates.
How do we, how do, how can we verify this?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:I don't think you can.
I think you're really trusting the supply chain to do that.
And it, and it is, I would say, murky at best.
So it's, and you can, anybody can put like a little logo on a, on a package and you're not really sure what that means.
That logo means, if you trust your brand, this is where that, where that really matters.
And believe me, the cheapest chocolate that you find at big grocery stores or at big change, it's cheap for a reason.
Right?
I mean, you're talking about Easter eggs and Halloween candy and stuff.
There's a reason that it's so inexpensive.
George Duran:Would you have more trust in like the European chocolates versus the American made chocolates?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:I think America gets a bit of a bad rap there.
I think that the same sorts of big chocolate things are happening in Europe as they are happening in the United States.
So like when people like to, you know, trash on Hershey for putting this ingredient called PGPR in their chocolate, which is another emulsifier that again allows you to use less cocoa butter.
But then you flip over that, that Cadbury chocolate bar and it's the same thing.
So I think, I think big food is big food no matter where you are.
George Duran:Yeah, but kinder makes these chocolates that I don't know what it is.
I would eat a Kinder bar over a Hershey's bar any day.
Is it just because they're formulation or are they using better ingredients?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:I think that's your own preference.
And I think that's what's cool about being a customer.
You know, you get to decide.
Some people just still think that a Reese's peanut butter cup is the absolute best, you know, peanut butter there is.
And I've come to learn in my career that you just don't argue with that.
George Duran:Yes and no.
Because at the same time, I've been trying peanut butter cups, you know, in the last 30 years of my life.
I feel like either the formulation has changed, it's gotten worse, grainier, too sweet, or maybe my palate has kind of evolved.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:No I think, I think you're right about, I think you're probably right on both points.
I mean, this, I'm not an expert at this, but if you go back and you look at the formula over time on these larger chocolate confection products that we've purchased in the past, like you're talking about, they have changed.
George Duran:Yeah.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:Chocolate is made up of, of the solid cocoa, you know, which is, let's say $10 a pound.
The fluid part of it, which is the, the cocoa butter, that's $20, $26 a pound, all day long.
Sugar is 50 cents a pound.
What are you going to add to try to get your costs under control?
Right.
So if, you know, if you're making, you know, on a good day, I will make, you know, 500 candy bars, let's say, on a really good day.
Right.
Snickers, there's a million made a day.
A day.
So just if you had to understand the difference in scope and scale.
George Duran:But there is, there isn't like this big consortium of massive chocolate manufacturers who are kind of controlling the price of cocoa versus, like oil, for example.
Is that happening?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:That is happening, yes.
Because they're worried that they won't have enough chocolate for their products.
This is, this is why some people are considering even lab growing.
George Duran:Tell me more about that.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:I don't know much about that.
George Duran:Come on, you're the engineer here, man.
You're the engineer.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:Well, because I really, I am not a fan and I just, I really don't want that to happen.
I like that we're eating an agricultural product that's grown in the wild.
George Duran:Yeah.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:That's why I'm never, I never really get on board the anti Hershey train or the anti Nestle train when I hear it.
But I think they have a purpose, they have a role.
You know, these big companies came in and democratized it and made it so that everyone could taste the chocolate and in.
Yeah, the chocolate may not be as good, you know, it's, it's got fillers and stuff, but it's also like 2, 3, 4 dollars at a gas station.
Right.
You have to give them credit for getting the chocolate out to the masses.
George Duran:Now one of the things that you're known for, especially on TikTok, is kind of coming up with these very unique flavor profiles.
Root beer float chocolate, UBE quinoa, even Sichuan peppercorns just came out with that.
How long does it take you to kind of think of these ideas and then come up with that working prototype?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:Eventually the thinking of the Ideas comes extremely fast because I've got this ginormous social media group that throw those ideas at me left and right.
The Sichuan peppercorn that you just mentioned, I mean, that's at least six months.
I toiled on that, and I had to put it away several times because it just wasn't working.
You know, the one that was easy but extremely popular was called the Lemon Fizz, which was taking lemon and infusing that into white chocolate and putting in those popping crystals so that when you bite it, you know, you get a popping sensation in your mouth.
That's an extremely popular bar.
George Duran:Dubai Chocolate.
Is it a trend or is it just trash?
Are we done with it?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:I'm so glad you brought up Dubai Chocolate, because I think it's a really good example of a great product that was destroyed by capitalism.
The original product, you know, came from, obviously, a chocolate shop in Dubai called the Fix.
You know, it's pistachio and this kata ify it's called.
And you take that and you put that into pistachio, and you put it into chocolate bar, and it's good.
When you started to see Dubai Chocolate show up, you know, at Costco, Big Chocolate had to do what Big Chocolate does.
Take this problem and convert it and put it into their system.
And unfortunately, a lot of people's first and only experience with that was from the large makers.
And so they've never really had it.
And so they walk around saying, oh, I tried.
It really wasn't that good.
George Duran:Yeah.
What do you give out for Halloween?
And are you the most popular house on the block?
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:No, our house is dead on Halloween.
No one comes here.
George Duran:And your shop.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:We have done that in the past.
We should probably do that this year, come to think of it.
Yeah.
Gosh, you're giving me a good idea.
Maybe we should open up for Halloween again this year.
George Duran:Absolutely.
Constantine, thank you so much for being on the show.
I feel like we can talk about chocolate for an entire episode, and maybe we should.
If you're ever in New York City, I want you to come on the show and we could do an entire episode just about chocolate and confections and candy bars, so on and so forth.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:Sweet treats belong in people's lives.
It makes them happy.
So, yeah, you're right.
We could talk about chocolate all the time.
George Duran:Thanks for being on the show.
onstantin Zsigo | Chocolatier:Thank you for having me.
George Duran:Constantine Zigo, master chocolatier at Park Lake Creamery in Bath, Michigan.
You can order all of his incredible chocolate confections at Constantinezigo, spelled with a K Constantin and Zigo spelled Z S I G O.
And definitely check him out on TikTok at Constantinezego, where he's answering all the questions about chocolate you've ever wanted to ask.
That's it for today.
Don't forget to follow us and subscribe.
Subscribe to Always Hangry wherever you get your podcast, and check out our social at Always Hangry podcast for clips behind the scenes and everything we're hungry about.
I'm George Duran.
Till next time, stay hungry.
