'90s Diet Disasters, Cabbage Soup & Asian Food Beyond Takeout

George Duran: 00:00:00

Eight bananas and eight glasses of skim milk.

Karen Walsh: 00:00:02

That's a lot of bananas.

George Duran: 00:00:04

Yeah, it sounds like cabbage soup is coming out of you after that.

Karen Walsh: 00:00:08

I don't need that visual, George.

George Duran: 00:00:13

Welcome to the Always Hangry podcast where we break down the way we eat.

The good, the bad, and the completely ridiculous.

I'm your host, George Duran.

On today's show, we're going back to the 90s when eggs were the enemy, fat free cookies were considered health food, and somehow eating cabbage soup for seven days was supposed to make us skinny.

And later on, instant noodles get a high tech makeover, and we discover why your favorite Chinese takeout is just the tip of a very delicious iceberg.

Joining me on today's show is the only person who gets emotional walking past the cottage cheese aisle, the wonderfully talented Carla Walsh.

Karen Walsh: 00:00:49

I do.

Especially if they're out of Good culture.

I mean, that has been a hot commodity lately.

George Duran: 00:00:55

Not just lately, since the 90s.

Karen Walsh: 00:00:58

No, it goes way back.

Did you grow up eating cottage cheese?

George Duran: 00:01:02

I always hated it.

There's that little graininess and, like, chunkiness that just reminds you of something that's already been eaten.

And I don't know, my wife eats it every morning for breakfast and I just can't get into it.

I haven't tasted it for many years.

Maybe something new has changed.

Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Karen Walsh: 00:01:22

It's interesting because I was raised in a family where my, my mom was very anti cottage cheese, except it is allowed in her lasagna recipe, like her signature lasagna.

Instead of ricotta cheese, she uses cottage cheese.

And, like, because it melts, it's okay.

But she's just like, very anti like, the texture of cottage cheese.

But I feel like Good culture has, like, these small curds.

It's a little salty.

I am a fan.

George Duran: 00:01:49

Yeah, we are big fans of Good Culture.

And not just that we can't find it on the supermarket shelves.

Karen Walsh: 00:01:54

I cannot either.

It's like I have on my Target and, like, Target app and see, like, if there's any in stock stores because it's just like, it's hard to find.

George Duran: 00:02:05

And here in New York City, if you're looking for it and it's gone, it's because I've hoarded them all.

Like, anytime I find it, I take, I buy like eight at a time.

Yes.

Karen Walsh: 00:02:13

It's so good.

George Duran: 00:02:14

So what if we find out it's bad for you?

Karen Walsh: 00:02:17

Oh, my gosh.

That would make me really sad.

George Duran: 00:02:20

I mean, this is what happened in the 90s, too.

There were all these foods that people thought they were good for you, and suddenly we.

We made terrible mistakes.

Do you remember any of the 90s foods that is most memorable for you?

Karen Walsh: 00:02:30

Oh, my gosh.

I grew up on a steady diet of nutrigrain bars, which is kind of like another one of those, like, billed as healthy snacks.

Right, like the fruit filling with, like, the soft, crumbly, like, cookie exterior.

George Duran: 00:02:42

Absolutely.

There was a lot of foods back in the 90s that were supposedly bad for you or good for you, and it was the complete opposite.

And that brings me to our first game of this episode.

Karen Walsh: 00:02:53

Ooh, I'm ready.

George Duran: 00:02:54

It's called good food or bad food.

What you're gonna do is tell me if these foods from the 90s were considered good back then or bad back then.

You ready?

Karen Walsh: 00:03:03

Okay, I'm ready.

Bagels good for you, right?

George Duran: 00:03:07

In: 1994

I mean, bagels are not that good for you.

Karen Walsh: 00:03:19

I mean, they're good for you if you need a lot of energy before a long run.

They do have a good, high car, low fiber content.

So it's not going to upset your stomach.

George Duran: 00:03:27

Let's take the perspective of the American audience who does not go out for a long run.

It's bad for you.

Okay.

Karen Walsh: 00:03:34

It's not great.

I would say half a bagel.

Have half a bagel and like, a couple eggs and a piece of fruit.

George Duran: 00:03:39

You have half a bagel and sit.

Be happy.

That's not possible.

I need both sides and I need it toasted.

A little bit of what is called whitefish.

Karen Walsh: 00:03:47

See, I'd be satisfied with half bagel if it was the top half.

Like, you know, the half with all the good stuff.

George Duran: 00:03:53

You're the one who eats the top half.

It's my kids who eat the top half and they leave the bottom half for me.

Karen Walsh: 00:03:57

Well, the good thing is I live by myself, so I have to live with my consequences.

George Duran: 00:04:01

Well, you know how they have the muffin top from Seinfeld that they should just sell the muffin top.

Karen Walsh: 00:04:04

Oh, my gosh.

George Duran: 00:04:05

They should sell the top half of the bagels only.

Karen Walsh: 00:04:07

Yes.

Just the tops.

Yes.

George Duran: 00:04:09

All right, next food.

Cottage cheese.

Good food or bad food in the 90s?

Karen Walsh: 00:04:13

Definitely good food.

Especially if it was served in like, a half of a cantaloupe.

George Duran: 00:04:17

Absolutely.

In: 1995

Karen Walsh: 00:04:27

Oh, always low Fat.

This is the 90s after all.

George Duran: 00:04:30

Avocados.

Good food or bad food?

Karen Walsh: 00:04:32

Ooh, I'm trying to think back to the 90s.

I was guessing probably bad then.

George Duran: 00:04:36

Correct.

It was bad food.

In the early: 1990

However, in: 1998

And it is.

Avocados are amazing for you, avocados have.

Karen Walsh: 00:04:53

A bit of fiber too.

George Duran: 00:04:54

Boy, we got these wrong back then.

Karen Walsh: 00:04:57

I know, I know.

But the good thing about science is that it's constantly evolving.

So we live and learn until we.

George Duran: 00:05:02

Find out that cottage cheese is really bad for you.

Karen Walsh: 00:05:04

No, say it isn't so, George.

George Duran: 00:05:06

Hey, you know, we got it wrong back then.

We were so sure of it in the 90s.

Why?

Why would it be right now?

Karen Walsh: 00:05:12

I know.

It is having a major renaissance.

George Duran: 00:05:15

It's all right.

Nuts.

Karen Walsh: 00:05:18

I think they were bad because it again, is another high fat food.

And we were afraid of those in the 90s.

George Duran: 00:05:23

That's right.

,: 1994

Karen Walsh: 00:05:35

Jelly beans?

George Duran: 00:05:36

Yeah.

Karen Walsh: 00:05:37

Oh, my.

Wow.

Wow.

Why, my, how the tide has changed.

George Duran: 00:05:42

Okay, the next one here is.

But butter.

Good food or bad food in the 90s?

Karen Walsh: 00:05:46

Oh, so bad.

Unless it was.

I can't believe it's not.

George Duran: 00:05:49

That's right.

In: 1994

Only for scientists to later discover that some margarines contained harmful trans fats that were even worse for your heart.

Karen Walsh: 00:06:01

Okay, you might also like for butter.

Do you remember the butter sprays?

George Duran: 00:06:05

Yes, they still have it.

Karen Walsh: 00:06:07

Wait, they do?

George Duran: 00:06:08

Yeah.

I can't believe it's not Butter has a spray.

And I remember using that for corn.

You used to spray it on corn?

Karen Walsh: 00:06:14

Yes, exactly.

And we thought that it had zero calories because the serving did.

But then that was for one spray.

George Duran: 00:06:20

But that's no different than what the sprays that we have today with the olive oils.

I've seen ghee.

There's no difference between that and the pump spray.

But still something about margarine.

I don't know.

Margarine.

Karen Walsh: 00:06:31

Right.

And it spreads like a dream.

It's probably those trans fats.

George Duran: 00:06:34

Yes.

Egg yolks.

Karen Walsh: 00:06:37

Oh, so bad for you.

Back in the 90s.

George Duran: 00:06:40

Yeah.

In: 1994

I mean, we were really scared of eggs in the 90s.

Karen Walsh: 00:06:50

Yeah, absolutely.

And like the, the interesting thing is that we've learned that like dietary cholesterol doesn't have any link to changing your blood cholesterol.

It's more saturated fat.

And there's not that much saturated fat in an egg.

It's like one and a half grams, which is like less than is in like a chicken thigh or a serving of chicken wings.

George Duran: 00:07:10

The food industry was marketing everything as low fat, cholesterol free or heart.

Healthy eggs, especially their yolks, became collateral damage.

And even to this day, my in laws try not to eat eggs and egg yolks.

Karen Walsh: 00:07:23

So tough because like so much of the nutrition is in the yolk.

You know, like all of the brain health, eye health.

George Duran: 00:07:28

Were there no doctors and nutritionists back then in the 90s?

Karen Walsh: 00:07:32

No, I think it was just the science was saying, you know, X and we've learned that it way.

It's just like, you know, dietitians are the ones who are really specialized and keep up on all this stuff.

And so in an ideal world, doctors would be referring people to dietitians for their nutrition advice.

George Duran: 00:07:50

Yes.

In the: 1990

So people were getting into the egg whites and then egg substitution products were huge.

Here are some of the egg white substitute brands.

Let me see if you can guess which ones are still around.

Simply eggs was one of them.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:04

I think that's still round.

No, it's not.

George Duran: 00:08:07

No, no, it's not.

I look for it second nature.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:11

I don't think I've seen that.

George Duran: 00:08:13

No, no, no, it's not around Egg beaters.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:15

Oh, for sure.

That's definitely still around.

George Duran: 00:08:18

Yeah.

And these guys use food coloring to make it look yellow.

I mean, that's kind of the secret there.

Better in eggs.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:25

Ooh, I remember that from the 90s, but I don't think I've seen it recently.

George Duran: 00:08:30

They're still around.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:31

Ah, yeah.

George Duran: 00:08:32

And they color their eggs with beta carotene and natural orange yellow pigment as well.

This day and age, we have egg substitutions that have no eggs in it.

That's the big thing right now.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:42

Yeah, like flax eggs.

George Duran: 00:08:43

Yes.

Brands like just eggs which has mung bean protein.

Yes.

You know, I've tasted that one.

That's actually not bad.

Simply eggless has lupin bean protein.

Karen Walsh: 00:08:53

Ooh, okay.

I haven't had that in eggs.

I've had it in pasta.

George Duran: 00:08:57

Yo egg has sunflower oil, soy and chickpea protein.

Karen Walsh: 00:09:01

Oh, that sounds interesting.

George Duran: 00:09:03

Wonder Eggs with a U.

Wonder has almonds, cashews, and coconut milk.

What the hell?

Where's the egg?

Karen Walsh: 00:09:09

Wow, that's totally shifting from the 90s.

That is, like, a very high fat alternative.

George Duran: 00:09:14

There's a brand called Neat Egg that has chia seeds.

Karen Walsh: 00:09:17

Yeah, I've heard of that.

And like, a lot of people do their own, like, chia or flax egg at home.

George Duran: 00:09:22

No, thank you.

I'm out.

And then there's energy eggs made with potato starch and tapioca flour.

Karen Walsh: 00:09:31

Wow.

George Duran: 00:09:31

Just.

Just eat an egg, people.

Come on.

Like, there's one thing that you're vegan.

I understand that.

Okay, that's fine.

This is a good.

But for health reasons, wouldn't it be better to eat an egg than any of these egg substitutions?

Karen Walsh: 00:09:44

I guess it depends on what your goals are.

Have you ever tried something like a scrambled tofu?

Like, a lot of people do that.

I think for an egg alternative, too, when they're just, like, aiming for the egg, not just, like, using it in recipes.

George Duran: 00:09:57

Absolutely.

Scrambled eggs were made with tofu and turmeric, so they kind of get that little scramble.

That's disgusting.

And I love tofu.

But no, for chocolate cake, people would usually, instead of using eggs, they would use applesauce.

I've done that before for friends who are vegan.

And then I don't invite them anymore.

Karen Walsh: 00:10:16

That is a very 90s trick.

I remember.

Yeah.

Growing up with a little bit of applesauce cake.

George Duran: 00:10:21

And finally, for muffins, they recommend you put plain Y instead of eggs in there.

Karen Walsh: 00:10:25

Okay.

That would actually be delicious.

George Duran: 00:10:27

Why not the eggs?

I guess if you're allergic to eggs, that's one thing, but.

Karen Walsh: 00:10:30

Yeah.

Or if you run out maybe and you don't want to go to the store.

George Duran: 00:10:32

Man, every neighbor has eggs.

Everyone has eggs.

Karen Walsh: 00:10:35

Do people still ask their neighbors for eggs and sugar?

George Duran: 00:10:38

Yeah, of course, everyone.

You don't.

You don't go to your neighbors, and you haven't made friends with your neighbors enough that you can be like, hey, anyone have an egg?

Karen Walsh: 00:10:46

I would probably prefer to go to the store than bother someone for some eggs.

George Duran: 00:10:51

I guess you're not friends with your neighbors.

Karen Walsh: 00:10:53

No, I am, but I just feel like that's kind of like a personal thing.

It's like, I don't want to steal their eggs because maybe they had plans for those.

George Duran: 00:11:01

Okay, first of all, there's like a dozen eggs in their fridge.

Probably if you're in the middle of a recipe and you need, oh, my gosh, I forgot the eggs.

What are you going to do.

The batter's there, you're ready to go.

You're going to get in your car and go get eggs.

Karen Walsh: 00:11:13

I probably would.

George Duran: 00:11:14

Listen to me.

If you move to New York City and you're near me, come to my home.

There's tons of eggs here, but definitely no tofu with turmeric.

Karen Walsh: 00:11:22

I feel like nutritional yeast is the unlock there.

That's what makes it actually taste like a little more savory and delicious nutritional yeast.

George Duran: 00:11:28

They gotta change the wording on that.

There's nothing appetizing about that name.

Karen Walsh: 00:11:33

It is not.

It's not super appetizing.

George Duran: 00:11:35

Would you like some nutritional yeast on your burger?

We're gonna take a quick break.

When we come back, we're staying in the 90s, when fat was the enemy, carbs were our best friends, and somehow eating nothing but cabbage soup was considered a legitimate diet.

And then we talk to someone who knows what we're missing when it comes to authentic Asian food.

Turns out our taste buds need a passport.

Stick around.

Karen Walsh: 00:11:57

Oh, gosh.

George Duran: 00:12:22

Welcome back to Always hangry.

We're talking 90s food trends with Carla Walsh.

Now, in the 90s, we were obsessed with everything fat free.

And you wrote something for the Food Network magazine recently, right?

Karen Walsh: 00:12:33

I did, yes.

We're having this big nostalgia moment, so I thought it'd be kind of fun to see which trends hold up from the 90s and which are, you know, great to leave in the past.

So we covered everything from got milk to like, we were talking about egg whites, like the Zone Diet.

George Duran: 00:12:52

Interestingly enough, in the 90s, we had the food guide pyramid.

It arrived in: 1992

Its base recommended six to 11 servings of bread, cereal, rice and pasta all the way in the bottom of the pyramid, while fats, oils and sweets sat at the tiny top with use sparingly.

We needed to eat more bread and rice and pasta according to the Food Guide Pyramid.

Karen Walsh: 00:13:13

I mean, even to this day, there are so many lobbyists involved.

People making choices have a lot of money that's kind of maybe swaying now.

George Duran: 00:13:22

Because of the fat free trend.

Back in the 90s, there were a lot of snacks that were made fat free and you felt like you were eating, you could eat anything you wanted.

Pretty much, Snackwell's was one of the biggest hits ever.

Do you remember Snackwell's Devil's Food cookie cakes?

Karen Walsh: 00:13:36

Yes.

And I mean, they had sandwich cookies, but yeah, the devil's food were like the iconic ones.

But I still.

Yeah, that shade of green, it's forever linked with me to SnackWells?

George Duran: 00:13:46

Yeah.

If you don't know what it is, it's a miniature chocolate cake with a soft, slightly rubbery texture topped with a thin layer of marshmallow covered in a waxy chocolate coating.

In fact, Nabisco was trying to crank out roughly 2 million devil's food cookie cakes per day, and they still could be hard to find per day.

Karen Walsh: 00:14:03

Wow, that is so many.

You can tell how George feels about them when he describes them as, like, rubbery and waxy.

George Duran: 00:14:10

I just remember that it had, like, the marshmallow inside of it and it was fat free, and it pretty much gave us permission to eat as much of it as we wanted.

Karen Walsh: 00:14:18

The funny thing was, when I was doing research for that piece, they were sold up until fairly recently.

I just searched for them and they're still like, listings on Amazon.

It says out of stock, but it's still.

Still like, there.

George Duran: 00:14:30

That whole thing where you feel like you can eat more of it because it's fat free.

It's called the Snack Wells effect.

We're gonna play a little game here.

Are you ready?

Karen Walsh: 00:14:38

I'm ready.

George Duran: 00:14:38

We're gonna play Snack Wells or snack not wells.

Karen Walsh: 00:14:42

Oh, gosh.

George Duran: 00:14:43

I'm gonna compare the nutrition of two Snackwell Devils Food cookie cakes with something else, and you have to tell me if it has more or less of it.

You ready?

Karen Walsh: 00:14:51

Ooh.

Okay.

This is gonna be fun.

George Duran: 00:14:53

Okay, which has more sugar?

Two Snackwell's Devil's Food cookie cakes or one Krispy Kreme Original glazed donut?

Karen Walsh: 00:15:00

I'm going to say the donut Snackwells has more sugar.

How much more?

George Duran: 00:15:06

Snackwell's has 14 grams of sugar and Krispy Kreme has about 10 grams of.

Karen Walsh: 00:15:10

Sugar, so it was pretty close.

George Duran: 00:15:12

Yeah.

Speaking of Krispy Kreme, which has more calories, Snackwell's or the Krispy Kreme Original Glazed?

Karen Walsh: 00:15:19

I'm gonna say the Krispy Kreme because I think a Krispy Kreme has like 180 or something like that, and I think Snackwell's would be like 100.

George Duran: 00:15:27

How the hell do you know this?

That's insane.

Yeah.

Krispy Kreme has 190 calories and Snack Walls has 100 calories.

Karen Walsh: 00:15:34

Oh, pretty close.

George Duran: 00:15:36

Wow, you're amazing.

This is what you do in your spare time.

Look at nutritional content, man.

Karen Walsh: 00:15:42

I've written many a nutrition story.

George Duran: 00:15:45

Okay, what about two snackwells versus a Krispy Kreme in terms of sodium, which one has more sodium?

Karen Walsh: 00:15:50

Oh, I'm gonna say the Snackwalls cookies have more sodium because I think sodium and sugar were a little higher in those lower fat things.

George Duran: 00:15:58

Incorrect.

Ah, yeah.

Krispy Kreme has 100 milligrams of sodium versus 50 with snacks.

Incredible.

You know, in the 90s, we also had a diet that always promised you to lose 10 to 17 pounds in seven days.

Did you ever do this diet?

It was called the cabbage diet.

Karen Walsh: 00:16:16

Yeah, cabbage soup diet.

So you basically make a big batch of cabbage soup or you can buy something equivalent and you eat only that plus like select foods.

But yeah, it's basically just like a vegetable soup.

George Duran: 00:16:30

So you can eat as much cabbage soup as you want.

And on day one, you can have unlimited fruit except bananas.

On day two, you can have unlimited vegetables plus one baked potato with butter.

Oh my gosh.

On day three, you can have unlimited soup with fruits and vegetables, but no potatoes or bananas.

On day four, up to eight bananas and eight glasses of skim milk with that soup, of course.

That's a weird one.

Karen Walsh: 00:16:57

That's a lot of milk.

George Duran: 00:16:58

That's a ton of milk.

And a ton of bananas too.

Karen Walsh: 00:17:01

Yeah.

George Duran: 00:17:01

On day five, you can have beef, chicken or fish, like unlimited, plus up to six tomatoes.

Who's writing this with that?

Cabbage soup.

Day six, beef, chicken or fish and vegetables.

And day seven, brown rice, vegetables and unsweetened fruit juice.

And you then you can lose a ton of weight doing all that.

This, none of this.

This sounds like a fraternity haze.

That's what it sounds like.

Karen Walsh: 00:17:26

A, it's not healthy for the seven days, nor B, can you keep it up.

George Duran: 00:17:30

Eight bananas and eight glasses of skim milk.

Karen Walsh: 00:17:32

That's a lot of bananas.

George Duran: 00:17:34

Yeah, it sounds like cabbage soup is coming out of you after that.

Karen Walsh: 00:17:39

I don't need that Visual, George.

George Duran: 00:17:41

In: 1996

Her follow up investigation two weeks later uncovered even stranger details.

The diet went viral before social media ever existed.

It was passed along to other people with typewritten photocopies, fax machines.

In the 80s and 90s, nobody knew who wrote it, of course.

And in: 1996

Karen Walsh: 00:18:10

Stop it.

So this all points back to Xerox and faxes.

George Duran: 00:18:14

This is like the, this is how the whole viral thing started.

It wasn't through instant messages or posting on your Instagram.

We just sent, you know, photocopies and fax machine notes to everyone with this diet.

Karen Walsh: 00:18:25

The good thing about that is it doesn't come with Comments?

George Duran: 00:18:28

Well, until you eat it and you tell your friends that you ate it and you lost all this weight.

Karen Walsh: 00:18:32

Right.

Or had digestive distress.

George Duran: 00:18:34

By the way, that reporter, cabbage sales at one point, she said, in Washington, D.C. groceries reportedly increased 25% compared to the previous week.

So.

Karen Walsh: 00:18:43

Wow.

So this is like the OG baked.

George Duran: 00:18:46

Feta pasta and there was a shortage of feta cheese.

Karen Walsh: 00:18:49

Yeah, like, there were stores that were running out.

George Duran: 00:18:51

How do we run out of food in this country?

Karen Walsh: 00:18:52

How are we forgetting about when we ran out of toilet paper?

That was a whole thing.

George Duran: 00:18:57

All right.

But there was no, not enough supply.

That's something else.

And people were hoarding.

Like I'm hoarding the good culture.

Cottage cheese.

Karen Walsh: 00:19:03

Exactly, Exactly.

George Duran: 00:19:05

Freaking hoarders.

Karen Walsh: 00:19:06

I'm gonna come over to your house when I'm your neighbor and ask to borrow some cottage cheese.

George Duran: 00:19:11

I'm not opening the door.

You can ring the doorbell as much as you want.

That door ain't opening for cottage cheese.

I'll give you eggs.

By the way, that reporter lost six pounds on the diet when she was testing it out.

After she finished the experiment, she was left with two large containers of cabbage soup in her freezer that she couldn't bear to look at.

Karen Walsh: 00:19:30

Yeah, that would just go directly in the trash.

George Duran: 00:19:32

Carla, thank you so much for joining us today.

I had a great time learning about the 90s.

I hope we never go back to the 90s.

Karen Walsh: 00:19:39

I hope so, too.

I'm glad that we have made some progress.

George Duran: 00:19:42

Some.

All right.

When we come back, we talk to Matt Slonim, creator of Words with Bones, about authentic Asian food, wild noodle innovations, and why our taste buds have some serious catching up to do.

Stick around.

Welcome back.

Our guest today is Matt Slonim , a New Yorker who spent the last nine years living, eating, and drinking his way through Asia.

He's a food and culture writer, brand strategist, and co owner of a listening bar in Seoul.

Matt, welcome to the show.

Matt Slonim: 00:20:37

Thank you very much.

That was a great introduction.

I don't think I've ever had such a wonderfully well rounded introduction.

It's an honor.

George Duran: 00:20:44

I just called your mom.

She told me to say this, so I knew it.

Matt Slonim: 00:20:47

I knew that.

I was like, I've heard all of this before somewhere.

George Duran: 00:20:51

You're in Bangkok right now, right?

Matt Slonim: 00:20:52

Right now I'm in Bangkok, yes.

George Duran: 00:20:54

What are you doing there?

Matt Slonim: 00:20:55

So I moved here from Seoul about nine months ago.

I was in Korea for nine years.

I had been coming here for a primarily as a dj, which is something that I do in my free time.

And I Sort of had this hypothesis that I could continue to grow what I was working on in terms of helping out brands that enter the Korean market by actually being outside of Korea and yet close enough that I could come and go as necessary.

So that's what I've been doing for the last nine months or so.

George Duran: 00:21:20

So let me get this right.

You're essentially, besides your DJ job, you're helping brands incorporate themselves into the Asian market, specifically Korea, because you have a unique perspective.

Am I right about that?

Matt Slonim: 00:21:33

Yeah.

I usually call it unorthodox.

In all of that, I accrued a very unique set of experiences that just given the position that Korea now holds in the eye of the world, has ended up being very in demand.

George Duran: 00:21:47

Now, quite often, you come back to New York and you eat Asian food in the United States.

Tell me about how disappointed you are when you do eat some of the Asian foods, because your perspective is very unique.

Matt Slonim: 00:21:58

I would sort of take the opposite view on.

On your question.

I think my ability to appreciate an interest in the foods of this region that I've called home kind of counterintuitively, largely came from where I am from.

You can go to Queens and try Nepalese food, Right?

You can have.

You know, I remember the first time I ever had jellyfish was at Ollie's on 42nd Street.

Not in China.

I've been to China a handful of times.

I already had jellyfish.

I got that out of the way early.

So I think because of that, going to Asia, living in Korea, now I live in Bangkok.

And moving around and traveling around became a lot more seamless.

George Duran: 00:22:37

Can we talk about what's actually happening between the coasts?

Because, yes, we're both New Yorkers, and people who live in California have an incredible access to Asian food.

Matt Slonim: 00:22:46

Unbelievable.

Yeah.

George Duran: 00:22:47

And I travel throughout the United States, and I rarely find a good Asian restaurant between the coasts.

Why is this the case?

And why don't Americans demand for better Asian food on their restaurant tables?

Matt Slonim: 00:23:03

Even beyond Asian food, there are two types of global food that we see in the US and probably that are seen elsewhere in the world, which are type one being food that is prepared for the local population and type 2, food prepared by immigrants for other immigrants.

And needless to say, the food that is prepared by immigrants for other immigrants is as authentic as it can possibly be.

Food that is localized, that has not happened to every cuisine within the very large umbrella.

That is Asian food.

Right.

So the most obvious one would be Chinese food.

China and people from China.

Immigrants from China.

For now, it's a century and change have been incredibly adept at going to every corner of the world and finding a life and making a life there and doing so largely through the sale of their food and adapting incredibly well their food to local tastes.

And America is a great example of that.

I am a huge fan of American Chinese food.

I think it's a cuisine of its own unto itself.

I think it deserves a lot of merit.

George Duran: 00:24:10

Why aren't we bringing Asian food to a different level?

Because, A, it's cheap and it's not necessarily all that complicated because the Asians are doing it constantly.

Why aren't Americans eating better Asian food between the coasts?

Matt Slonim: 00:24:25

I don't think any cuisine in the world is.

Is particularly simple.

But I will say, especially the authentic cuisines of many countries in Asia are anything but simple.

And Chinese takeout is simple because it's designed to be simple.

That is not representative at all of.

Of the broad, broad spectrum, the vast spectrum of incredible Chinese food.

And so much of Asian cuisine relies on ingredients that we simply do not have in America.

And if we do have them, they're not good.

George Duran: 00:24:56

How did some of these Asian restaurants produce their fast foods, their Asian fast foods?

Are they better than what we get here?

Is it still some chef who isn't really a chef that's squirting a sauce onto noodles and serving it to you?

Or is it a whole different experience there for Asian fast food, that private.

Matt Slonim: 00:25:13

Equity food that's a real certain kind of soulless flavor of restaurant, of F and B, that is.

Is unfortunately very American.

Still, I think what I would say is there are restaurants that they kind of dumb things down and they compromise for that by charging less and by being fast and just, you know, being solid.

And in most countries, similar to America, I think you have a consumer base that's happy with that and just wants to run in and get a hot meal.

So, you know, it's not quite the same as American Chinese food in that sense, but there's a need, and people are willing to give up some of their pretensions about food or their standards about food is a better word in order to have that need filled.

George Duran: 00:25:55

Let's switch a little bit here and talk about trends.

Boba Matcha ube.

What is the next big trend coming from Asia to the United States?

Matt Slonim: 00:26:04

I think a lot about instant noodles that is just now starting to seep into American consciousness and interest.

But I think what has not yet reached America is the incredible variety, the incredible breadth of instant food offerings and especially noodles.

But just an example I've Seen some articles about Japan just invented instant noodles that can be made cold.

They're cold noodles.

And hot water does not have to enter the equation.

You pour cold water into the noodles, you let them sit, and you have a nice cool lemon broth.

Cold noodle.

George Duran: 00:26:42

Wow.

Matt Slonim: 00:26:44

Amazing, right?

And so I do not for a second think that those would ever catch on and go crazy in America.

But that's just an example of the kinds of food engineering that are happening here that I feel like we've largely distanced ourselves from in America because it doesn't have a good reputation.

And frankly, as an American, I'm saying this, I don't think it should.

You know, it's not healthy to be eating this instant food as an American.

George Duran: 00:27:07

If I had one trip to take in Asia to eat my way through Asia, which country should I visit?

Matt Slonim: 00:27:14

From a personal taste standpoint, I think there are few cuisines in the world that can get anywhere close to Thai cuisine.

It's one of the reasons I'm here, to be frank with you.

If I had to pick my top two, it's Mexican and Thai, and they are surprisingly similar in many, many ways.

And eating across Thailand is.

It's kind of like seeing a new color, like learning about a new color, because you're just going to encounter flavors and textures and experiences that you.

You didn't.

You were not able to imagine existed before from like a.

An almost an anthropological standpoint.

Like, if you wanted to really, you were.

You were planning, like you said, you're going to make your way through all of Asia.

But you wanted a starting point.

It has to be China.

And that's because, first of all, China's incredibly large, incredibly diverse cuisines.

It would be like a very interesting trip to start in China, acquaint yourself with Chinese food, and then go across Asia and understand how Chinese cuisine and Chinese culture has spread throughout Asia, as did the rest of Chinese influence over the last several thousands of years.

It's an incre.

It's just.

It's a mind blowing place in terms of food and everything, culture.

It's wonderful.

George Duran: 00:28:20

All right, thanks so much, Matt Sloan.

I really appreciate you being on the show.

We have a lot more to talk about with you in the future, I hope, because it's not just Asian cuisine that you focus on, right?

Matt Slonim: 00:28:28

Whatever you'd like to talk about, I'm available.

This was a real pleasure.

George Duran: 00:28:31

Thanks, Matt.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Matt Slonim: 00:28:33

Thanks a lot.

Have a good one.

George Duran: 00:28:34

And if you want to know more about Matt's adventures through Asian food, culture and everything in between.

Check him out on TikTok at wordswithbones or dive a little deeper into his stories on substack.

That's it for today.

Thanks so much for joining us here on Always Hangry.

Thanks.

Make sure to visit alwayshanrypodcast.com for more episodes, behind the scenes, goodies and all things food.

And don't forget to follow us throughout social mediawayshangrypodcast.

Until next time, I'm George Duran.

Stay hungry.