Your Food Isn’t Expired! Plus: The Unwritten Rules on Sharing and Busted for Eating Weeds!
Summary
One gluten-free guest can derail a dinner party. One meatball can derail a friendship. George Duran and food writer Karla Walsh lay out the unwritten rules of sharing plates, expose what "best by" actually means, and meet the forager New York City arrested for eating a dandelion in Central Park.
Show Notes
There is an exact number of appetizers a restaurant will bring to your table, and it is never the number of people sitting at it.
George Duran and Des Moines food writer Karla Walsh open this one on the social minefield of shared plates: which fries are legally yours (curly, apparently, forever), why high-end restaurants insist on serving five of something to a party of six, and what to do about the single remaining croquette that everyone is staring at and nobody will claim. George lays out his rules — everyone gets one before anyone gets two, double-dipping is fine if your fork behaves, and if you take the last bite you have to say so out loud. Karla, who is more reasonable, mostly agrees. There's also a 20-year grudge over a friend's birthday bill that has never been resolved and probably never will be.
Then the label on the yogurt. California's new date-labeling law took effect this July, which means "sell by" is gone from consumer packaging in the state and everything else has to say either BEST if Used by or USE by. George explains what those two phrases actually mean, why almost none of these dates are federally regulated, why brown ground beef is fine, why vacuum-packed chicken smells like that for about nine seconds, and why you should absolutely not wash it. Then a game called Taste It or Waste It, in which Karla learns her hot sauce has years of life left in it. Also: George's standing theory that cereal companies deliberately refuse to put zippers on the bag.
And then the man who sees dinner where you see a lawn. "Wildman" Steve Brill has spent more than forty years teaching people to identify edible plants across the Northeast, and he became internationally famous in 1986 when undercover park rangers — posing as a married couple, on his own tour — arrested him for eating a dandelion in Central Park. He tells the whole thing: the hidden walkie-talkie, the handcuffs, the fingerprints taken for the city, the state, and the FBI, the judge who wanted it out of her courtroom, and the part where the city dropped the charges and then hired him. He also explains, without much sentiment, what happens if you eat the wrong mushroom.
Nothing here is food safety advice. When in doubt, throw it out.
Takeaways:
- Some foods are not shareable and pretending otherwise is how friendships end. Curly fries are the clearest case.
- Restaurants plate appetizers in threes and fives because odd numbers look better, which means they are mathematically hostile to a table of four or six.
- "Sell by" was never for you — it's stock rotation. "BEST if Used by" is quality. "USE by" is the safety one. Only that last one is telling you not to eat it.
- Brown ground beef is a chemistry story, not a spoilage story: myoglobin oxidizing to metmyoglobin. Smell and texture are the real tells.
- Foraging isn't reckless, it's just uncommon — Brill's rule is 100% certainty on identification, every time, no exceptions.
Companies and people mentioned
- "Wildman" Steve Brill — Forager, naturalist, environmental educator, author — wildmanstevebrill.com
- Foraging with the "Wildman" — Brill's foraging app, 250+ plants — wildmanstevebrill.com/mobile-app
- Karla Walsh — Food, wellness and lifestyle writer; Level One Sommelier (Court of Master Sommeliers) — karlawalsh.com · IG @karlaswalsh · newsletter What's Good
Also referenced:
- California AB 660 (Irwin), effective July 1, 2026 — standardizes food date labels, bans consumer-facing "sell by"
- USDA — safe minimum internal temperature for poultry, 165°F; guidance on mold on hard cheese; color as a freshness indicator
- FDA — infant formula is the only food product with a federally required date label
- Drexel University — consumer research on discarding food near package dates
- NYC Parks Department — Brill's 1986 arrest and subsequent four years as a Parks naturalist
- Mayor Ed Koch, Parks Commissioner Henry Stern, former Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe
- CBS Evening News with Dan Rather, New York Daily News, Associated Press
- All-Bran, Shredded Wheat, Rice Krispies treats
Transcript
Don't you kind of wish your protein could just talk to you?
George Duran:It does. You just have to raise chickens in your backyard. Welcome to the Always Hangry podcast, where we break down the way we eat.
The good, the bad, and the completely ridiculous. I'm your host, George Duran. On today's show, the unwritten rules of sharing food.
And then we take a deep look at the fake urgency of food expirations. And later on. Have you ever looked at a patch of weeds and thought, can I eat that? That's right. Today we're learning the art of foraging.
Joining me now is the only person on earth who doesn't mind sharing her fries, the wonderfully talented Karla Walsh.
Karla Walsh:If they're curly fries, they're all mine. But all the rest of them, I'll share.
George Duran:You don't share your regular, your curly fries at all.
Karla Walsh:Those are my favorite.
George Duran:They are, right? I like also the waffle fries.
Karla Walsh:The waffle fries. The surface area to like potato ratio is just ideal.
George Duran:But why don't people like sharing food? Like in your case, the curly fries?
Karla Walsh:Yeah. Because for me, it's like I want the perfect bite. And like, if you take my favorite fry that has like that right 'curly Q', it's just a little bit like, ah.
George Duran:Yeah. It's that moment when like they bring that, you know, they bring the dishes. Right. And then they're. And like everybody's like eyeing your fries.
Karla Walsh:Yes, that's very fair. And it's just like you have your eyes set on the favorite bites. And also it's like you could just order your own if you really want fries.
George Duran:Thank you. I say that all the time.
Except I'm also the one who steals the fries too, especially for my kids dishes because I order like the main course with the rice or beans or whatever it is, and they order always fries. And I'm just like, it gets there. And my kids are kind of proprietary with their fries.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
I feel like you need a table fry. Like I get a table pancake when I go to brunch sometimes that you can share it and you have something a little sweet.
George Duran:So you need like a table fry.
Karla Walsh:That is a genius idea. Like a shared collective in addition to the sides that are already on the table, just in case.
George Duran:One of the things that I always find annoying is that you go into these high end restaurants now and all their dishes are shareable. Do you find that? Do you go to a lot of these types of restaurants?
Karla Walsh:Yes. Like shareable small plates.
George Duran:Yeah.
Karla Walsh:I was chatting with the people who are like the Top Chef judges and they're like. That makes no sense to me. If they're small, they're not made to be sharing. They should be big. Made to be sharing.
George Duran:Well, the problem with sharing foods in a high scale restaurant is that they come in, like, odd numbers and you're an even group. Like, how do you share food? Four, you know, items with five people.
Karla Walsh:Oh, shoot. How do you do this?
George Duran:I don't. Am I supposed to take a bite and pass it along?
Karla Walsh:Right. Especially if it's, like, people that you don't know very well.
George Duran:The most common quantity restaurants serve appetizers is three and five.
Karla Walsh:Is it because it looks nice? Like, I've heard with, like, artists and stylists and stuff, it's like odd numbers is like a pretty collection.
George Duran:Always three or five. Go with odd numbers. But usually, like, you're a family of four. You're six. You can't divide five into six.
Karla Walsh:Right. My mom is a math teacher. And so you'd have to, like, go up to 30 to evenly divide 5 and 6. Right.
George Duran:Math was a worse subject for me, so I have no clue. Here's a list of restaurant appetizers that I think are the least shareable.
Karla Walsh:Ooh, I like this game.
George Duran:Ravioli.
Karla Walsh:Yeah. That's oozing out.
George Duran:No. How do you. Yes. Guess who gets the ooze? Anything that's ball shaped.
Karla Walsh:Okay.
George Duran:Like croquettes, meatballs.
Karla Walsh:Arancini.
George Duran:Yeah. How do you divide that?
Karla Walsh:Difficult.
George Duran:Yeah. Deviled eggs.
Karla Walsh:Yeah. That's impossible.
George Duran:Do you take a bite and pass it along?
Karla Walsh:If you're really familiar with the person that you're sharing with.
George Duran:Okay. Wings?
Karla Walsh:Yeah. No.
George Duran:I had somebody share wings one time.
Karla Walsh:Like one wing.
George Duran:One wing. Because we were odd even. One of those situations where you just can't divide wings.
And the guy literally took a knife and went between the two bones and cut it in half. And you go. And he passed it along to me.
Karla Walsh:I mean, that's very generous, but that seems like a lot.
George Duran:I don't know. Something about half a wing that is not satisfying. I just don't trust. Here's half a wing. How did you do that?
Karla Walsh:The whole rest of the evening, you'll be dreaming of what that other half tasted like.
George Duran:Yeah. When I go into a restaurant now as an adult, as a foodie, as someone who's obsessed, I'm like an orchestra conductor.
Karla Walsh:Oh, this is good. Do you order for the table?
George Duran:Oh, do I order for the table? Everybody assures me that power to order for the table.
Karla Walsh:That's a lot of pressure.
George Duran:I am an orchestra conductor, too. So when the appetizers come and they don't match the quantity of people.
Karla Walsh:Oh, then it's on you.
George Duran:Oh, man.
My fractions have gotten much better as an adult, and I'm just cutting and sharing, and the mozzarella stick is being divided up, especially with my kids, who are constantly fighting for the last one. It is so important to learn fractions for that sole reason.
Karla Walsh:That's the only reason.
George Duran:That's it. That's the only way.
Karla Walsh:Maby baking.
George Duran:Do you count how many people have taken bites? If they've taken more or less.
Karla Walsh:Oh, that's too much. I want to be present. No, I'm not doing the.
George Duran:I'm kind of conscious about that. Like, I'm in this conversation with friends on the table. Everything's good, but I'm also watching their bite count.
Karla Walsh:How do you do the mental Jenga?
George Duran:Damn, that guy took three meatballs already, and I've only had two.
Karla Walsh:I better hurry.
George Duran:Yeah, so when you go out to dinner with me, I'm watching.
Karla Walsh:Did you grow up in a family where it was like that? You know, like, you had to hurry to get your quantity?
George Duran:No, not really. Because we always ordered double.
Karla Walsh:Yeah, I mean, that's a smart way to keep the peace.
George Duran:You're on a table, you have the appetizers. There's one sole appetizer amongst all your friends, and it's just lonesome right there. What do you do?
Karla Walsh:It depends on how much I really like the dish. If I don't really like it, I'm happy to just let it sit there.
If I do really like it, I maybe ask, like, is anybody else interested in that last bite? Otherwise, nibs.
George Duran:That's good, because everyone is watching that last bite. Right.
Karla Walsh:You don't want to just swoop in.
George Duran:Nobody wants to do that, but somebody has to. And then the worst is that the waiter comes. It's like, hey, no one's eating it. Let me take it away. I have wrestled waiters, those dishes.
I've wrestled them to make sure they don't take that appetizer from me. I have wrestled waiters from taking the juice of the ceviche away. I want that juice. That's all the flavor. And they just pick it up.
And I'm like, no, no, no, we haven't. There's still the juice and the onions left from that liquid of the ceviche.
Karla Walsh:You're like, I have a spoon.
George Duran:Yeah, I have a spoon. I'm going in go with the plate. I'm just drinking it up, man.
Karla Walsh:Give me a straw.
George Duran:Here are my top rules for shared plates at a restaurant.
Karla Walsh:Oh.
George Duran:I want to know if you agree with me.
Karla Walsh:I can't wait.
George Duran:Everyone gets one before anyone gets two.
Karla Walsh:I think that's appropriate.
George Duran:Yeah. If accidentally someone eats two before everyone has one, you have to buy dessert.
Karla Walsh:Ooh, I've never heard of that before, but that's a plot twist.
George Duran:It's my rule.
Karla Walsh:I like it.
George Duran:Yeah. Another rule I have. Double dipping is allowed. Hold on. As long as your fork only touches the food you're about to consume.
Karla Walsh:Yes, I agree with that. Yeah, as long as your bite marks aren't on there.
George Duran:Right.
Karla Walsh:Plus, if it's your family, then, like,.
George Duran:Oh, I don't want to share with my kids.
Karla Walsh:Who knows where that's been?
George Duran:They don't even wash their hands. The person who ordered it gets first dibs.
Karla Walsh:What about the person who's paying?
George Duran:Oh, they get all dibs. Of course. Granted, if nobody claims the appetizers after 30 seconds, it's fair game.
Karla Walsh:30 Seconds is fast, though.
George Duran:Yeah.
Karla Walsh:You're still kind of deciding which piece you want.
George Duran:30 Seconds is an eternity when it comes to good appetizers. What are you talking about? I'm like, 30 seconds. Like, I have a countdown and my timer. The alarm's going off like no one has eaten it for 30 seconds.
I'm in.
Karla Walsh:Are you bringing, like, a buzzer from one of those board games that will, like, play the alarm out loud?
George Duran:Yeah. Or one of those electrical guns that you shock some people. Get out of here. It's mine.
Karla Walsh:Full size operation.
George Duran:And finally, if you take the last bite, you have to acknowledge it. Does anyone want this?
Karla Walsh:Yeah, I think that's appropriate. It's kind of like ask for consent.
George Duran:Yeah. Do you know what the biggest relationship troublemaker is when it comes to sharing?
Karla Walsh:Ooh, I can't wait to hear.
George Duran:The number one is French fries.
Karla Walsh:French fries. Okay.
George Duran:A UK survey of 2,000 adults found that french fries ranked among the foods people are least willing to share, along with pizza, ice cream, and chocolate.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:49% Hate when someone takes food off their plate without asking. 53% Admit to experiencing food envy after seeing someone else's meal.
Karla Walsh:Oh, I've totally done that.
George Duran:Huge.
Karla Walsh:Why did I order this?
George Duran:And when someone else has something even better.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:And, you know, I'm the one who usually orders something better, and my sister always notices that. So from now on, she says, I want to see what George orders first.
Karla Walsh:Okay, so you kick things off when the server comes.
George Duran:I kick things off. She knows I could read the menu, and I can imagine what it's going to taste and look like. And I have a good. I have a good mind and palate for that.
15% Said they've actually argued after someone stole their fries.
Karla Walsh:Argued. How serious does this get?
George Duran:You know, my kids. Oh, man, the fries are like. It's World War III.
Karla Walsh:Wow.
George Duran:Yeah. French fries are sacred. All right, let's talk a little bit about splitting bills.
Karla Walsh:Perfect.
George Duran:Researchers found that people order up to 37% more food when they know the bill will be split.
Karla Walsh:Wow, that's fascinating.
George Duran:You don't do that?
Karla Walsh:No. I mean, it's really easy, at least in the Midwest when I go out to eat, for them to use their little kiosk and split it if we need to.
But I'm also the. Just give me the bill and we can figure it out later.
George Duran:But if somebody orders, like three drinks and you've ordered one, is that fair to split the bill evenly?
Karla Walsh:Yeah. I think you talk about terms of like, would we like to split it down the middle? Or would you like your orders itemized?
George Duran:Except it's hard for some restaurants. They don't split it more than two or three ways sometimes.
Karla Walsh:Right. How do you feel about alternating? Like, one of my good friends and I, we go out to dinner, and, like, he gets one, then I get one.
So then it's just like, kind of. It evens out, and, like, we don't nickel and dime each other, but.
George Duran:Well, that's fine. But when it's three or four or five or 10 people.
Karla Walsh:Right. Then you have to. This could go on forever. You better really like the group that you're dining with.
George Duran:How do you split a bill when you're sharing small plates, too? I know, like, you ate three pieces. I ate two.
Karla Walsh:Like, right. Or you ate the meatballs or the majority of the meatballs. This is just. It's complicated.
George Duran:There are some etiquette experts that say you should discuss this before you start eating.
Karla Walsh:Yes, I think that's wise.
George Duran:Hey, guys, we're going to divide this equally, or, hey, guys, we're going to have separate checks, or, hey, guys, if you drink, order more than two drinks, we're going to. You're going to have to pay a little bit more.
Karla Walsh:Right.
George Duran:I have a friend, and we used to go to her birthday party at the restaurants. She would all invite us, and one time when the bill came amongst 10, 12 of us, she asked us to divide it up evenly.
Karla Walsh:Wow.
George Duran:And pay for her.
Karla Walsh:No. Oh, no. If you initiated the party, you are. You're paying at least your portion.
George Duran:And I watched her drink a whole bottle of champagne on her birthday.
Karla Walsh:Absolutely not. Do you think that champagne was talking when she said that?
George Duran:Oh, man. I think she was talking before she ordered it. I think she was like, yeah, it's my birthday. You're paying for it.
Karla Walsh:That's so bold.
George Duran:I have never been to her birthday party again. Yeah, it's been like 20 years now.
Karla Walsh:She's been voted off the island.
George Duran:Okay, can we take a quick break, please? Okay, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll find out whether expiration dates are protecting your stomach or just hurting your wallet.
And later on, we'll meet the man who can turn your neighborhood park into a grocery store through the art of foraging. We'll be right back.
All right, we're back.
You know, just recently in California, they announced that they have banned confusing consumer-facing "sell by dates." Have you heard of this?
Karla Walsh:I have.
George Duran:Yeah. On the packaged foods.
To reduce the grocery waste, manufacturers must now use standard labels, "Best if used by" or "Best if Used or Frozen by" for quality, and "Use by" or "USE by or Freeze by" for safety. And it's really confusing.
Karla Walsh:So confusing because like many people think best by is like when it's not good safe to eat anymore.
George Duran:So the term sell by, it's not for you, it's for the store inventory management. So it has nothing to do about you.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:All right. It's not for the consumer. Ignore the term best by. It's about the peak quality.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:So even if it's the day after best by, it doesn't mean it's bad to eat.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:The term used by, again, it's about quality, not about safety. And then there's a term expiration date which clearly indicates the food you cannot eat after that expiration date.
The new rules in California are just best if used by and used by. So the best if used by or frozen by, it's quality.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:And the used by or freeze by is about safety.
Karla Walsh:I think that's appropriate.
George Duran:In the United States, expiration dates are largely made up by manufacturers.
Karla Walsh:Right. Because they want to sell more.
George Duran:Yeah. These food date labels are neither federally regulated nor science based. Except for one exception, infant formula.
Karla Walsh:Oh, I could see that.
George Duran:Only product whose date is federally regulated. Everything is mostly about quality, not safety. So those dates are kind of fake.
Karla Walsh:Yeah. Do you adhere to them?
George Duran:Never.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:No, I use my senses.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:According to the USDA, 20% of food is wasted because of these labels.
Karla Walsh:Yep. I could see that. That's a lot.
George Duran:Yep. I know a lot of Americans Are opening up the yogurt. Not even opening it up.
Looking at the expiration date or the best by date and saying, oh, this is yesterday. I'm not even opening this up.
Karla Walsh:Right.
George Duran:And just throwing it right in the garbage.
Karla Walsh:Well, yogurt in particular, that seems like it's bacteria anyways.
George Duran:The study from Drexel University found that 84% of consumers discard food near its package date, at least occasionally.
Karla Walsh:Wow.
George Duran:And people trust labels more than their senses.
Karla Walsh:Oh, that's wild.
George Duran:How do you test milk? Even if it's open, how do you test?
Karla Walsh:Yeah, I just smell it.
George Duran:My kids are always afraid to smell it because they don't want to smell something funky. So, I mean, I shove my nose in that cotton.
Karla Walsh:Yeah. I think that's the safest way.
George Duran:There is a myth going out there. You know those giant gallons of milk?
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:They have this little indentation around. Circular indentation.
Karla Walsh:Yes. What is that for?
George Duran:Well, a lot of people think that when that expands and it pops out, the milk is bad.
Karla Walsh:Well, I've never had a milk that was that explosive.
George Duran:I guess that's not real.
Karla Walsh:Okay.
George Duran:Yeah. That pop out, by the way, for the gallon of milk. It just means there's a structural integrity issue with that gallon of milk.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:So it has nothing to do with you.
Karla Walsh:Its design.
George Duran:Yeah. With cheese, What do you do with cheese? If you see that it's moldy, for example.
Karla Walsh:I know that's a tricky one. I think it depends on how far the mold has spread. I generally slice it off, but, like, I also am, like, I don't know, is it worth it?
Like, I could just go buy more.
George Duran:Or you can do what the FDA says.
Karla Walsh:What do they suggest?
George Duran:Cut at least one inch around and below the mold spots.
Karla Walsh:Yeah. I would say that's usually about how much I cut off. It's like, at least you gotta have, like, a wide berth.
George Duran:Who has a cheese that's wider than an inch anyways? I mean, like an inch. Like, you need, like, a massive ginormous
Karla Walsh:Wedge
George Duran:Yeah. One foot by one foot. Blob. To cut out an inch. Just chuck it.
Karla Walsh:A Costco sized.
George Duran:Yes. All right, we're gonna play a game. Ready?
Karla Walsh:Perfect.
George Duran:It's called taste it or waste it.
Karla Walsh:Oh, no.
George Duran:How long after the best by date can you consume these products?
Karla Walsh:Okay, and this is, per the FDA, per George.
George Duran:This is, I want to say, a quick disclaimer. We're talking about general food labeling. We are not giving food safety advice. When in doubt, throw it out.
Karla Walsh:Always talk to your own medical professional.
George Duran:And please don't sue us. All right. Yogurt. Five days after the Best By date. All right. Eggs. How long do you think after the Best By date?
Karla Walsh:Two weeks.
George Duran:FDA says one week. I have kept it for a month.
Karla Walsh:Man, I feel like that's fine.
George Duran:Yeah. And you're refrigerating anyways.
Karla Walsh:Don't you, like, see if it floats?
George Duran:No, I just see if it tastes good or if it gets me sick and that's it. Hot sauce. How long after the Best By date?
Karla Walsh:Oh, I would say six months.
George Duran:Three years.
Karla Walsh:Three years? Oh, I was undercutting it.
George Duran:You're throwing away your hot sauce, girl. Give it to me.
Karla Walsh:I know, I gotta hurry up.
George Duran:Crackers.
Karla Walsh:Oh, well, I mean, if they're stale, but I would say two months.
George Duran:Six months.
Karla Walsh:Okay.
George Duran:Yeah. Ground beef?
Karla Walsh:Four days.
George Duran:Yeah. It's two days after the use by date.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:Yeah, you gotta be careful with that one.
Karla Walsh:That would be a little tricky.
George Duran:And you notice when you go to the butcher, the ground meat on the outside is kind of reddish, and then the inside, it's brown.
Karla Walsh:Yeah, I feel like you taught me about that, like, being oxygen exposure related, right?
George Duran:Correct. It's actually okay to eat brown beef.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:Believe it or not, the USDA says color alone is a poor indicator of freshness or safety. The question is, why does beef turn brown, especially the inside of the ground beef? And it all comes down to a protein called myoglobin.
After about 50 minutes in the air, oxygen binds to the myoglobin, creating oxymyoglobin, which gives beef its bright red cherry color. As the meat sits in the refrigerator or under grocery lights, the myoglobin continues to oxidize it into metmyoglobin, which is brown.
And it's safe to eat.
Karla Walsh:Unless it's probably green or purple. Then maybe you should.
George Duran:Well, that's the one thing you have to be careful. You have to look at the color, but there's a lot more. Is it safe to eat? Yes. Unless it's still within its safe storage time.
So you have to look at the date?
Karla Walsh:Yes. Okay.
George Duran:If it smells sour or rotten, don't eat that. Ground beef.
Karla Walsh:Nope.
George Duran:If it's slimy or sticky, don't eat the ground beef.
Karla Walsh:Run.
George Duran:Yeah. Raw chicken is a whole different conversation.
Karla Walsh:Oh, that's complicated.
George Duran:Yeah. Do you ever go home and open that? The raw chicken? It smells kind of sulfury and funky.
Karla Walsh:Ah, that seems like a warning sign. Should I be worried?
George Duran:If you open raw chicken and it has a strong sulfur rotten egg smell that does not go away, clearly don't eat it.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:Except if it's vacuum packed.
Karla Walsh:Okay.
George Duran:According to the FDA, vacuum sealed chicken can release a brief sulfur like or funky smell the moment you open it. And that's because that low oxygen environment changes the chemistry in that package.
Karla Walsh:Wow.
George Duran:So just let it air out just a little bit. If the funk is gone, you're good to go.
Karla Walsh:Okay.
George Duran:And if it's not, Chuck it.
Karla Walsh:Don't you kind of wish your protein could just talk to you?
George Duran:They do. You just have to grow chickens in your backyard. Yeah. Do you ever wash your raw chicken?
Karla Walsh:I don't, but I wrote a whole story about this. I feel like it's. It turns out it's pretty cultural. Like a lot of different backgrounds depend on whether they do it or not.
Mom always told me that we do not.
George Duran:Your mom is right. Yeah. The USDA, the CDC, the FDA recommend against washing raw chicken, period. The reason is that washing does not remove the bacteria, it spreads it.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:So why do people still do it? And it's because it's cultural. You're absolutely right. Some people.
I remember my mom used to wash chicken or like rub it with lemon and vinegar and all these things, and you're doing a disservice. You're not doing anything. The bacteria is still there. It doesn't kill the bacteria. And the safest way to kill bacteria with chicken.
Cook it to 165
George Duran:degrees, people.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:Do you ever feel that companies are secretly designing packages so they expire faster?
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:It's a conspiracy. I'm telling you right now.
Karla Walsh:What's the worst offender?
George Duran:Cereal.
Karla Walsh:Cereal. Do you decant your cereal then and like, put it in one of the tubs with, like, the air pump things?
George Duran:No, I put it in a Ziploc bag and they pop it back into the box.
Karla Walsh:Okay. Yeah.
George Duran:That's it.
Karla Walsh:Yeah.
George Duran:That's the secret. Why aren't cereal bags resealable?
Karla Walsh:That's a great question. I've seen a lot of TikTok hacks about, like, folding the top of the box to, like. But that's still not air safe.
George Duran:And I always forget how it's done.
Karla Walsh:I know. It's like, can you show me again? Yeah, tomorrow. And then again.
George Duran:Here are the reasons cereal companies claim they won't make their cereal bags resealable.
Karla Walsh:Oh, I can't wait to hear.
George Duran:Adding a zipper costs money.
Karla Walsh:I mean, I would believe that.
George Duran:Yeah. Adding a zipper slows production.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:It requires redesigning equipment.
Karla Walsh:Okay.
George Duran:And consumers have historically continued buying cereal anyways.
Karla Walsh:Oh, you're not forcing us to. So do we, like, protest and just stop buying cereal for a little while and see if they.
George Duran:They do it so that you cannot. You throw it away when it goes bad and you buy another one? I promise you.
One study says that 81% of consumers preferred resealable packaging over non resealable packaging. Duh. Of course, 54% said they'd pay more for packaging with convenience features like resealability.
Karla Walsh:I think so too.
George Duran:Yeah. The question is, why does a $6 bag of coffee have a zipper but cereal doesn't and costs more than six bucks?
Karla Walsh:Why not?
George Duran:Why does shredded cheese bags reseal but potato chips bags don't?
Karla Walsh:That is a great question. You even have the chip clip designed to, like, remedy this situation. You think they'd just come up with a zipper?
George Duran:Do you think these potato chip bags are in cahoots with the chip clips?
Karla Walsh:That's collusion.
George Duran:Are they making. Are potato chip companies making chip clips?
Karla Walsh:Oh, man. What cereal would you choose endless quantities of?
George Duran:I mean, can we add marshmallows and butter to it and then mix it into squares and eat it? Yes, because I could eat Rice Krispy treats for the rest of my life. All day long, endlessly.
Karla Walsh:That is a great answer.
George Duran:Yeah. Here's my idea. The first cereal company to make a resealable bag. It's gonna be a hit cereal.
Karla Walsh:I think so, too.
George Duran:You put all brand the cereal that almost nobody likes.
Karla Walsh:Yes.
George Duran:You put it in a resealable bag. Children will be gobbling that up.
Karla Walsh:Exactly. Shredded Wheat flying off shelves.
George Duran:That's it. Hey, cereal companies, listen to me right now. Put a resealable bag on your freaking cereal bag in your home run. You will sell out of your cereal.
Karla Walsh:I think that's true.
George Duran:Karla, thanks a lot for coming in.
Karla Walsh:It was such a joy to be here.
George Duran:Will you join us for the next episode?
Karla Walsh:Would love to.
George Duran:Okay, we're gonna do that.
And up next, if you've ever wonder plant growing through the sidewalk is a weed or lunch, you're about to meet the man who has spent decades answering that question. Stick around. Welcome back to Always Hangry. Now, most of us walk through a park and see grass, weeds, and maybe a few squirrels.
Our guest today sees dinner.
He spent more than 40 years teaching people how to identify edible plants and mushrooms growing right under their feet, leading thousands of foraging tours across the northeast. He's even made national headlines after being arrested for eating a dandelion in the New York City Central Park. Please welcome "Wildman" Steve Brill.
Steve how are you?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Very good. How are you?
George Duran:Very well. Thanks for being on the show. Now, when someone thinks of foraging, what would you say foraging is exactly?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:You're looking for edible and medicinal wild plants and mushrooms, herbs, greens, berries, roots, seeds, seaweeds. Or if you're a murderer, you're looking for poisonous plants.
George Duran:When I think of foraging in New York City, because that's kind of where you're concentrated in. The last thing I'm going to do is pick up anything from the ground and eat it. But you're happy to do this, right?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Yeah, I think it's a lot safer than the stuff that's heavily sprayed in the supermarkets. And you identify the plant with 100% certainty. That's rule number one. Then you're good to go.
George Duran:How did you all start with all this? I mean, were you like 5 years old and you picked up some grass, ate it, and you were like, this is great.
"Wildman" Steve Brill:So I'm bicycling for exercise, passing a park, and there are these ethnic Greek women picking something. And since I had just gotten into food and cooking and was getting cookbooks from the library, this is way before the Internet.
I asked them what they were doing, but I couldn't understand a word. It was all Greek to me. However, I did come home with a bag of grape leaves. I made an unconventional stuffing, and it was delicious and I was hooked.
George Duran:I'm sorry, but there's still something in me that is a little apprehensive about going and getting on the ground and taking a chance on eating something that I don't truly know.
Even if the photograph in your book is right in front of me, how are you going to convince someone like myself to really start foraging and eating things off the ground?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Well, come on my tours. By the time people have been on 10 tours, I'm lucky to show them maybe two new plants in a tour of three hours.
So it's not that hard to learn. It's just not part of our culture. Mushrooms take longer because they only come up after lots of rain.
George Duran:What happens if we eat a mushroom that's not the right mushroom? Are we really taking a chance or are we just going to get a little bit sick and move on from there and learn our lessons?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:It depends on the mushroom. Some of them will just make you sick and some of them will kill you.
George Duran:Oh, okay. Is there something that you find and you're absolutely elated, excited when you see it?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Probably violets, because that's my daughter's name.
George Duran:And what do they taste like?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:They're sort of mild, sweet and a little bit mucilaginous. That means they will thicken. Soups and stews, you eat the leaves and you eat the flowers.
George Duran:You learn something every day. And today I learned the meaning of the word mucilaginous.
"Wildman" Steve Brill:I love it.
George Duran:Is there like a golden rule we have to follow every time we forage? Like, is there something we need to kind of always look out for before we take a bite?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:A lot of rules.
You pick the stuff that's extremely common where it's common and you have to identify everything with 100% certainty, or feed it to the in-laws first and see what happens.
George Duran:That's the way I do it all the time. I gotta ask Steve. Do you ever fill up? Like, are you ever full?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Not really. Because I don't want. I gain weight very easily. I'm at my perfect weight now.
George Duran:Can you tell us a little bit about what happened to you when you got arrested or charges were brought upon?
"Wildman" Steve Brill: ,:Undercover agents disguised as nature lovers. It was a man and a woman. They said they were married. And because they didn't hold hands or kissed, I figured they'd been married for a long time.
The man kept taking photos. This is before digital cameras. With a still camera, I had hold up the specimen so we get good shots. Only I was the specimen.
At the end of the tour, I showed people. This is in March, when the leaves are young and first coming up. You can eat the leaves of a dandelion. And ate one.
The male ranger, ducked behind a tree, took out a hidden walkie talkie. Here he is on 81st Street. Go get him. Every park ranger in Central Park popped out from behind the bushes.
They surrounded me in case I was going to climb up a tree. They put me in handcuffs lest I bop them on the head with the dandelion.
George Duran:Oh, my gosh.
"Wildman" Steve Brill:And they searched me. I don't know if they're looking for weeds or weed. But they hauled me off to the police station in Central Park where they tortured me.
They blew cigarette smoke in my face. Of course that was allowed. Then they took fingerprints and mug shots for the city, for the state and for the FBI.
And then they made a terrible mistake. They issued me a desk appearance ticket. So they had to go to court and I could face a year in jail if convicted. And then they released me.
The mistake they made is arresting me for eating a dandelion in the most famous park in the world. So I went home. No Internet, but I had the phone. I called every TV station, every newspaper, every wire service.
The next day, early in the morning, I went to the newsstand to see if I'd gotten any results. Five cops stopped me. What do you want? I said, I haven't eaten a single dandelion. I haven't even had breakfast yet.
One of the cops says, we don't care. We want your autograph. I was in front pages of newspapers around the country. Associated Press.
George Duran:Whoa.
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Did a great job. I was on page two of the New York Daily News, and I got on with CBS Evening News with Dan Rather. Anyway, they still took me to court.
When the judge heard the charges, she beckoned the lawyers to come up and approach the bench and whisper to them, take this thing the hell out of my courthouse. So we did.
We went to the steps of the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse on Centre street, after which Mayor Koch told Parks Commissioner Henry Stern to turn over a new leaf. He negotiated with me, dropped the charges, and hired me to lead the same tours I was leading when I was arrested.
And I worked as a naturalist for the New York City Parks Department for the next four years and left when the administration changed. And in all the decades since, for some reason, they never came after me again.
I actually got permission when I was hired, and the permission was never withdrawn. So legally, I still have permission. But if any park rangers out there want to arrest me again now with the Internet, I'd love to get more publicity.
George Duran:Of course. Wait, so what were the charges exactly?
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Criminal mischief for removing vegetation from the park.
And I found out 10 years later from former Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe that the reason they came after me is they were terrified that if they allowed me to forage, someone would pretend to have been poisoned, foraging, sue the city and point to me and say, oh, you're allowing foraging.
George Duran:Amazing. Are you excited how technology is kind of taking over a little bit and AI where people can take the photos and right away they can tell you what.
What. What it is, and maybe you can even eat.
"Wildman" Steve Brill:Certainly it certainly helps, but it's not a hundred percent accurate. You are responsible for what you eat in the wild, and you have to be 100% certain what you have.
George Duran:All right, well, thanks so much, Wildman Steve Brill. Check him out at wildmanstevebrill.com or the Wild Edibles Forage app. And thanks so much for being on the show.
"Wildman" Steve Brill:You're welcome. Bye, folks.
George Duran:Thanks for joining us on Always Hangry.
If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, watch the full video and clips on our YouTube channel, join the conversation throughout social media, and visit alwayshangrypodcast.com for episodes, extras and everything we're cooking up next. Until next time, I'm George Duran. Stay hungry.
